3-4 Defensive Lineman

[HarveyWallbangers]

Peppers was clocked at NC running a 4.4. Was Kampman ever clocked running a 4.4 at Iowa?

Who knows? Those I don't trust. The combine is the only true measuring stick. It's a fast surface, but not the fastest. A lot of guys will run a bit better at their campus workout. If Peppers best time at the combine was 4.68, then he never sniffed 4.4, and that's all just pre-draft hoopla. Kampman was timed at his workouts by professional scouts. It seems he's ever bit as fast and agile as Woodley. I'll give Peppers a slight edge in 40 time--because I believe some scouts timed him in the HIGH 4.5s at his campus workout.

[Partial]

Peppers was clocked at NC running a 4.4. Was Kampman ever clocked running a 4.4 at Iowa?

Who knows? Those I don't trust. The combine is the only true measuring stick. It's a fast surface, but not the fastest. A lot of guys will run a bit better at their campus workout. If Peppers best time at the combine was 4.68, then he never sniffed 4.4, and that's all just pre-draft hoopla. Kampman was timed at his workouts by professional scouts. It seems he's ever bit as fast and agile as Woodley. I'll give Peppers a slight edge in 40 time--because I believe some scouts timed him in the HIGH 4.5s at his campus workout.

I think Kampman will be great as a 3-4 OLB. Their coverage responsibilities are pretty limited, I mean, how often in the playoffs did we see Suggs drop back into coverage? Not very often. Far more often than not he was an edge rusher. Same can be said for Ware.

BTW, I know he didn't run a 4.4, but in the article linked, it does say he was clocked on campus in the 4.4's and that he'd routinely outrun the DBs and receivers, and would do the drills with the skill players and often come out ahead. Realistically, there is no way he's a 4.4 guy, though, and we all know that. Maybe in his high school sprinting days, but I doubt it. Just saying how inaccurate the campus workouts can be with that statement.

I really like JP. I think his addition alone would move them from below average to top 10.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I really like JP.

Thanks for clearing that up. Can you stop with the tank-esque infatuation though? We aren't going to get Peppers. You can book that. There are some solid players available that are good fits for the 3-4 though. I actually hoping Thompson will look at the other Panthers major FA, if he becomes available. Jordan Gross would look really good at OT for us.

[Partial]

I really like JP.

Thanks for clearing that up. Can you stop with the tank-esque infatuation though? We aren't going to get Peppers. You can book that. There are some solid players available that are good fits for the 3-4 though. I actually hoping Thompson will look at the other Panthers major FA, if he becomes available. Jordan Gross would look really good at OT for us.

Tank like obsession? Hardly. Next time I see you get a boner for a player I'll be sure to point it out You've mentioned your man love of Chris Canty more than your fair share of times in the past couple of weeks.

With that said, I don't think we need to overpay for a Jordan Gross. Clifton has another year left where I think he'll do just fine. If Tauscher doesn't recover well this year, they can play Colledge at left tackle. I do think they should spend a higher pick on an tackle to develop to step in next year, though.

I think it's pretty ironic and comical that you are telling me we'll never get JP, yet you're talking about how you'd be excited for Jordan Gross, the player the Panthers are rumored to franchise.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it's pretty ironic and comical that you are telling me we'll never get JP, yet you're talking about how you'd be excited for Jordan Gross, the player the Panthers are rumored to franchise.

There's a difference in mentioning a guy a few times and mentioning him in every other post. Do you even realize how often you've posted that you want the Packers to sign Peppers?

[Partial]

I think it's pretty ironic and comical that you are telling me we'll never get JP, yet you're talking about how you'd be excited for Jordan Gross, the player the Panthers are rumored to franchise.

There's a difference in mentioning a guy a few times and mentioning him in every other post. Do you even realize how often you've posted that you want the Packers to sign Peppers?

In 14 Threads since December 7th. You've mentioned Gross and/or Canty in 6 threads for what its worth.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In 14 Threads since December 7th. You've mentioned Gross and/or Canty in 6 threads for what its worth.

Do you really want to compare? I've probably mentioned those two guys in 6-8 posts combined. I'm guessing you've mentioned Peppers in well over 50 posts.

[steve823]

LOL...I was going to say the same thing...then I scrolled down and you beat me to it. Partial, I agree that Peppers is good and all that crap but chacnes are WE ARENT GETTING HIM. Mentioning it in every post wont help it either lol. I think everyone in the forum..maybe even the country knows you like Peppers o there is no need to repeat it anymore

[Fritz]

"So maybe you need great line play in any system. Okay. But why then did the Bates system get criticized because it required so much of its defensive linemen?"

In a 3 - 4 you only need to find 3 good DL.

Also, it is easier to find OLBs for the 3-4 than it is to find DEs in the 4-3.

Couple of questions: yes you need fewer, but since we're starting with only two acknowledged defensive line "fits" (Pickett and Jenkins), then don't we need to draft more than if we kept the 4-3?

Second, won't the rotation become even more important on the d-line since they are asked to take on two blockers, at least at the nose?

Is it easier to find a 4-3 end than it is to find a 3-4 defensive end?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is it easier to find a 4-3 end than it is to find a 3-4 defensive end?

Personally, I don't think so. A really good 4-3 DE needs to stop the run and rush the passer. It's not as important for a 3-4 DE to rush the passer. You don't see all-around DTs or DEs anymore. Most DEs seem to be big, run stuffing types that fit better in the 3-4 (a lot of times these guys are smaller 4-3 DTs) or undersized pass rushers that can be moved out to LB in the 3-4 scheme.

[Farley Face]

Re: 3-4 Defensive Lineman

Does he envision himself as a strong side LB?

Yes.

Seems DEs in the 3-4 do the grunt work according to this article. Jenkins has already mentioned he has spoke to Corey Williams who moved to a DE in a 3-4 and was not interested in making a similar transition.

He may not be interested, but with the money he's making he'll do it. He's never been one to stir the pot.

Jolly will be in a contract year in '09 I believe, he'll want to do more than make Hawk/Bishop/Whoever look good.

I'm not sure Jolly is good enough for us to worry about. If he can make the transition, playing 3-4 DE isn't all that much different than playing 4-3 DT.

JAnd is Pickett a true nose in this D?

Why not?

I've read he doesn't anchor like a true NT. I know, surprising for a man with his size and strength, but that seems to be more than one scout's opinion of him. Too easily pushed around.

Packer Update:

"Pickett has been one of the team’s better defensive players for the past three seasons, but he’s not the kind of consistent run-stuffer that this scheme requires. “He gets pushed around too much at the point of attack,” said the scout. “The Packers need someone like Haloti Ngata (Baltimore), Casey Hampton (Pittsburgh) or Jamal Williams (San Diego) in the middle. Those players force double-teams on a consistent basis and make it extremely difficult for opponents to run the ball. And once the ground game is under control, guys like Capers can lick their chops and really get after the quarterback.”

[Farley Face]

Re: 3-4 Defensive Lineman

Does he envision himself as a strong side LB?

Yes.

Seems DEs in the 3-4 do the grunt work according to this article. Jenkins has already mentioned he has spoke to Corey Williams who moved to a DE in a 3-4 and was not interested in making a similar transition.

He may not be interested, but with the money he's making he'll do it. He's never been one to stir the pot.

Jolly will be in a contract year in '09 I believe, he'll want to do more than make Hawk/Bishop/Whoever look good.

I'm not sure Jolly is good enough for us to worry about. If he can make the transition, playing 3-4 DE isn't all that much different than playing 4-3 DT.

JAnd is Pickett a true nose in this D?

Why not?

I've read he doesn't anchor like a true NT. I know, surprising for a man with his size and strength, but that seems to be more than one scout's opinion of him. Too easily pushed around.

Packer Update:

"Pickett has been one of the team’s better defensive players for the past three seasons, but he’s not the kind of consistent run-stuffer that this scheme requires. “He gets pushed around too much at the point of attack,” said the scout. “The Packers need someone like Haloti Ngata (Baltimore), Casey Hampton (Pittsburgh) or Jamal Williams (San Diego) in the middle. Those players force double-teams on a consistent basis and make it extremely difficult for opponents to run the ball. And once the ground game is under control, guys like Capers can lick their chops and really get after the quarterback.”