Who will benefit the most?

[Partial]

Waldo is a know-it-all who is too wordy. If you can't get your point across in a sentence or two, I'm not going to bother

We need to bring back Donkey Nutz. Knowledgeable and to the point.

[Waldo]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

[MJZiggy]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

It happens to everyone occasionally. It means the inmates have come to accept you. You're one of us now. The straitjackets are to your left being modeled by that blue mutt over there.

[swede]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

It happens to everyone occasionally. It means the inmates have come to accept you. You're one of us now. The straitjackets are to your left being modeled by that blue mutt over there.

It's also a good sign if Partial mocks you. It tilts about 80% of the board your way.

[Bretsky]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

Ya, let's knock this shit off of theorizing/ describing and comparing posters and stick to subject matter

This keeps up and we all know it'll end up turning for the worse somehow

[Bossman641]

Ain't no way it's Woody. Waldo is intelligent and articulate and does his homework.

It's like meeting Patler's long lost brother.

Yea I know. Waldo and Woodbuck are like complete opposites of the spectrum. I do miss Woodbuck though occassionally.

I appreciate Waldo's posts as well. While stats don't always tell the whole story they are a good jumping off point, and Waldo seems to definitely do is HW.

Plus I'm sure Patler enjoys having somebody around to pick up the slack from time to time.

[Zool]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

It happens to everyone occasionally. It means the inmates have come to accept you. You're one of us now. The straitjackets are to your left being modeled by that blue mutt over there.

One of us
One of us
One of us
One of us
One of us

[SnakeLH2006]

I'll go out on a limb and say JH if he ever gets healthy, but my pick was for the Bishop baby! I'd love for this guy to get on the field at LB somewhere as he really seemed to come on in preseason and the few times he got to play in the regular season. Combine numbers aside, dude can can play and make plays (something sorely lacking last year from our front 7)...a playmaker. Let the kid play I say.

[SMACKTALKIE]

This has become a very entertaining thread. Personal ribbing plus team and positional shit as well.

Anyway.....I think that the Packer's run D will be similar, probably improved but by not much. I think moving the best D lineman from a papaer thin D line to LB is a risky move. I also feel that given Hawk's struggles to adjust to MLB, (despite the position's complexities) his adjustment to a 3-4 should be concerning as well.

I feel that the players who will benefit from the 3-4 right away will be the secondary because of the many different blitz and rush options the 3-4 gives a defense.

It may take a couple more free agent periods and drafts to build the personelle adequate to execute the 3-4 to its full potential.

[Iron Mike]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

It happens to everyone occasionally. It means the inmates have come to accept you. You're one of us now. The straitjackets are to your left being modeled by that blue mutt over there.

One of us
One of us
One of us
One of us
One of us

[Waldo]

This has become a very entertaining thread. Personal ribbing plus team and positional shit as well.

Anyway.....I think that the Packer's run D will be similar, probably improved but by not much. I think moving the best D lineman from a papaer thin D line to LB is a risky move. I also feel that given Hawk's struggles to adjust to MLB, (despite the position's complexities) his adjustment to a 3-4 should be concerning as well.

I feel that the players who will benefit from the 3-4 right away will be the secondary because of the many different blitz and rush options the 3-4 gives a defense.

It may take a couple more free agent periods and drafts to build the personelle adequate to execute the 3-4 to its full potential.

Last offseason, at least where I was, there was a song that echoed throughout the NFL, even among many Packer fans, that we were going to be on a predictable trajectory, Aaron was a good QB with lots of potential, but would struggle at first before finding his way later, that Brett gave us the best chance to win in '08, that Aaron would run a watered down offense until he had the experience to run something more complex. Some Packer fans were true believers in ARod, but you didn't see it much outside of "the homers". Well the homers were right, Aaron didn't struggle coming out of the gate at all, if anything the playbook expanded with Aaron under center, not contracted. MM called plays for Aaron that he did not for Brett, including the dynamic pocket and compound routes where the ball had to be thrown over the head of a DB.

There are not a lot of case studies of teams transitioning to a 3-4 from a 4-3, and each case is unique.

The Jets made their change overnight when Mangini took over for Herm. Herm was more of a Tampa-2 disciple than anything. In 2005, Herm's final year, they ranked 23rd overall in scoring defense. In Mangini's first season, they ranked 6th in scoring defense. The transition was made on a mediocre at best undersized defense. Their NT was undersized Dewayne Robertson (6-1, 308), backed up by the prototypical but raw 2nd year player Sione Pouha (6-3 325) who was drafted in the 3rd round the previous year. They struggled to stop the run, but finished with a solid overall defensive ranking. They did not invest a draft pick in their defense until the 3rd round the year they made the switch.

Bill Parcells took over the undersized terrible Cowboys defense in 2003, but didn't make the switch from the 4-3 to 3-4 base until 2005. In 2004 they finished 27th in scoring defense. In 2005 they finished 12th in scoring defense. They already had veteran DT La'Roi Glover on the roster, acquired backup NT Jason Ferguson in FA and drafted Jay Ratliff in the 7th round the year they made the switch. They drafted their pass rusher (Ware) in the first round the year they made the switch.

The Chargers made a quick transition as well. In 2003, the final year in a 4-3 base, they finished a god awful 31st in scoring defense. Wade ran a 4-3 in 2003, his first year, making the switch in 2004. 2004 saw dramatic improvement and the team finished 11th in scoring defense. They waited until the 2nd year in the scheme (2005) to draft Merriman, concentrating first on the line in 2004 in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the year they made the switch. The NT (Jamal Williams) was already on the team and broke into the elite ranks of DT's his first year as a 3-4 NT in his 7th year in the league.

The Dolphins switched from a 4-3 base to a hybrid in 2005. The only real difference from a 4-3 was a larger DE on one end and a Joker DE (Taylor) that played hand down or up or down. They didn't switch to a true 3-4 base until 2008 but had been moving that direction since 2005. In 2008 they finished #9 in scoring defense, after finishing #30 in 2007. They brought NT Jason Ferguson in from Dallas to facilitate the switch.

The Cardinals have been in the process of switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 since 2007 running a hybrid defense. NT Gabe Watson, drafted in 2006 in the 4th round, has not yet developed as hoped into a starting NT.

The 49ers have been trying to implement the 3-4 since 2005, but didn't dedicate to a true 3-4 base until Nolan was fired and Singletary elevated to HC. The defense saw dramatic improvement after moving away from the hybrid big nickel look that they typically ran. They have struggled to find a NT, using later draft picks that haven't panned out as hoped and bringing in mid tier FA NT Aubrayo Franklin in 2007.

The Patriots has played primarily the 4-3 but used occasional 3-4 looks from the time Bill Bellicheck was hired, but didn't really transition to a 3-4 base until the 2003 season. In 2002 they finished 17th in scoring defense, improving to #1 in 2003. They drafted their NT of the future, Vince Wilfork, in the first round of the 2004 draft. All 3 starting D lineman were drafted in the first round. They won the superbowl the year they made the switch.

The Browns made the switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in 2005 despite grossly inadequate personnel. They finished 11th in scoring defense in 2005 after finishing 24th in 2004.

The Ravens switched to a 3-4 in 2002 under Nolan after losing several players following the 2001 season. They finished #4 in scoring defense in 2001 and #19 in 2002. Since then they've run a hybrid switching into a 3-4 or 4-3 at will. They drafted their NT of the future, Haloti Ngata in the 1st round of the 2006 draft.

The other team that runs a 3-4 (or hybrid), Pittsburgh, has run it seemingly forever.

It doesn't appear that teams "struggle" when they switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4, unless they are coached by Mike Nolan, though some teams go through a hybrid period or wait until the personnel are in place.

We are definitely in striking distance with our current roster of having the right people in place. And we have the most important piece, a NT, he may not be elite, but he's a lot better than the NT's many teams had the year they made the 4-3 to 3-4 transition. And we are slotted well in the draft to grab an elite caliber NT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I also feel that given Hawk's struggles to adjust to MLB, (despite the position's complexities) his adjustment to a 3-4 should be concerning as well.

I think Hawk's struggles had more to do with his two injuries that affected him all year more than anything else. He was a solid LB (not elite, but above average) his first two years. The guy was injured and he's a warrior. He tried to battle through them. I don't know any other reason why he would have gotten worse in his third year. Of course, the DL didn't help, but he wasn't able to do things that he did in his first two years. It happens to a lot of players. Donald Driver had a miserable year the year he landed on his neck. Even the Vikings Kevin Williams had this happen. He was awesome his first two years. He was injured his third year and was no more than average.

[vince]

Assuming he's on our roster, whoever ends up gettign the most time at OLB opposite Kampman is the guy who benefits the most. That's who will get the greatest opportunity to make plays coming from a position in which he wasn't given the same opportunities to do so last year. It sounds like it could be Poppinga (the current front-runner I'd say), Chillar, Thompson, Hunter. Or it could be a new guy...

[Harlan Huckleby]

I love how me, not the topic of the thread, is the point of the discussion.

I have never been to this board before I signed up. But I do know my way around a message board talking Packer ball.

Ya, let's knock this shit off of theorizing/ describing and comparing posters and stick to subject matter

This keeps up and we all know it'll end up turning for the worse somehow

My other theory is that Bretsky and Wist are the same person.

[gex]

I think Kampman is gonna absorb the playbook quickly and be an absolute beast. you heard it here first.