Free Agents List with Comments

[Waldo]

second, i would really like to see us go after canty. we need depth at DE and it would be nice if we filled that depth with a starter and let the other guys back him up

I'm happy with landing either Olshansky or Canty, but is the decision of "Canty or Olshansky?" really clear cut.

If everything else is equal, I'd think the guy from Dnipropetrovsk might be happier in Green Bay than the guy from the Bronx.

Canty might be a little better player, but I don't think the difference is that great between the two, even though the FA $$ will say otherwise. I see GB as a great fit for him, his personality seems to be in line with the guys on our D.

Igor is definitely more of a 3-4 guy than 4-3. Of the 3-4 teams:
Dallas - Possibly, though cap space is a problem in big D
Miami - They would probably bring in Canty (who wants to play there)
Baltimore - Broke
Pittsburgh - They don't sign FA's, no need
NE - No need
Jets - Broke
Cleveland - Just went on DL spending spree last year
Broncos - Chargers divisional rival, Igor has no love for the horses
SF - Bigger needs than DE, especially on offense
SD - not pursuing him
Ari - possible, though $$ is possibly an issue

I just don't see a huge amount of competition for his services, whereas he makes tons of sense to bring in to GB. Possibly the Cowboys, Browns, SF, Ari, Miami, but with each situation in mind, plus Canty on the market, I've gotta think that GB is his most likely landing spot for him.

[rbaloha1]

Exactly. Jenkins has more trade value.

Why are you in such a hurry to get rid of him? He's the best DE on the team right now and no matter who we sign, we're going to need backups. Plus, his trade value is the lowest it will be right now, I doubt we could get a 4th round pick for him. Knowing Thompson it's not as though we actually need to trade decent starters for late round picks.

Not in hurry. Only consider trading if one of the fa des is signed or a draft pick/Harrell/Jolly shows starting capabilities.

Unfortunately Jenkins is akin to a light heavy weight trying to move up to the heavy weight class. Is Jenkins capable of playing olb.

Recall Jenkins was unexcited about the 3-4 switch. MM is attempting to "sell" Jenkins on the scheme. Recall Corey Williams comments to Jenkins about the 3-4. As a matter of fact Williams is probably a better fit for the 3-4 than Jenkins.

You have no idea what your talking about. Trade jenkins? NO. Move Jenkins to olb. NO. Hes our best D-linmen as of now.

Okay. Please provide an analysis of Jenkins playing a 3-4 end lined up somewhere between the guard and tackle in a one or two gap scheme versus lining up on the left shoulder of the left tackle in a 4-3 scheme.

Recall Jenkins joined the Packers as a free agent undersized defensive tackle with excellent pass rushing ability. Jenkins was moved to de to size and KGB's inability to play the run consistently. The 3-4 olb lines up where the 4-3 de lines up. But you said Jenkins can not play olb.

Please resolve. Thank you.

[red]

are we all talking about the same jenkins here?

the 305 pound run stuffing DE, the jenkings that moved from DT to DE to stuff the run?

CULLEN jenkins?

you want him to play OLB? are you fucking kidding us?

jenkins id the one guy that this switch fits perfectly, its like the staff saw the switch coming a few years ago and wanted cullen to get a head start. he is the one player that i have no questions about in the 3-4 switch.

3-4 DE is exactly what god put him on this earth to play

and excellent pass rushing skills is a tad bit of a stretch, he had a decent pass rush for a DT. 17.5 sacks in 66 games over 5 years is far from excellent

[mission]

3-4 DE is exactly what god put him on this earth to play

Exactly why trade suggestions are way outta control!

[rbaloha1]

are we all talking about the same jenkins here?

the 305 pound run stuffing DE, the jenkings that moved from DT to DE to stuff the run?

CULLEN jenkins?

you want him to play OLB? are you fucking kidding us?

jenkins id the one guy that this switch fits perfectly, its like the staff saw the switch coming a few years ago and wanted cullen to get a head start. he is the one player that i have no questions about in the 3-4 switch.

3-4 DE is exactly what god put him on this earth to play

Where did I say Cullen is a 3-4 olb? The point is Cullen is a 4-3 de.

Failed to see any analysis of what makes Cullen a 3-4 de other than God says so.

[red]

are we all talking about the same jenkins here?

the 305 pound run stuffing DE, the jenkings that moved from DT to DE to stuff the run?

CULLEN jenkins?

you want him to play OLB? are you fucking kidding us?

jenkins id the one guy that this switch fits perfectly, its like the staff saw the switch coming a few years ago and wanted cullen to get a head start. he is the one player that i have no questions about in the 3-4 switch.

3-4 DE is exactly what god put him on this earth to play

Where did I say Cullen is a 3-4 olb? The point is Cullen is a 4-3 de.

Failed to see any analysis of what makes Cullen a 3-4 de other than God says so.

and i would agrue jenkins is only half of a good 4-3 de. all he is, is a run stuffer. he played the ruching downs, kgb was the pass rusher.

i would argue he is a 4-3 dt forced to play DE because we had no other decent option. or a 3-4 DE that has been playing in the wrong system

i took this line. it made it seem like you were trying to make the jump

The 3-4 olb lines up where the 4-3 de lines up. But you said Jenkins can not play olb.

i think you're really way off on this one, to tell the truth. if it wasn't for jenkins we mihgt not even be making the change to 3-4. he is a big part of the puzzle that was already in place

[Lurker64]

Where did I say Cullen is a 3-4 olb? The point is Cullen is a 4-3 de.

No. Cullen Jenkins is a 4-3 defensive tackle (specifically an under-tackle) who has the quickness to play outside as a run-stopping specialist at defensive end in the 4-3 defense. That's precisely the sort of player you want at a 3-4 DE.

[texaspackerbacker]

We really don't have hardly any significant needs. RT might be the exception, and Stinchcomb might be a worthwhile investment. I'd be well satisfied, though, to see the Packers go into the season with what we have: Spitz at Center, Colledge and Sitton at the Guards, Clifton one last hurrah at LT and maybe Giacomeini at RT.

I also would not be opposed to the Packers picking up a 3-4 DE--I'd put Canty at the top of the list. Just the same, we will be fine without outside help also.

Beyond that, I really don't see anybody on that list that I would want the Packers to go after.

[rbaloha1]

Where did I say Cullen is a 3-4 olb? The point is Cullen is a 4-3 de.

No. Cullen Jenkins is a 4-3 defensive tackle (specifically an under-tackle) who has the quickness to play outside as a run-stopping specialist at defensive end in the 4-3 defense. That's precisely the sort of player you want at a 3-4 DE.

The point is Cullen is most effective in space. Cullen is physically not like brother Kris -- physically equipped to play double teams inm traffic.

Again Cullen is an effective run stuffer and pass rusher playing in space playing outside the offensive tackle. Expecting Cullen to consistently take on multiple blockers in line traffic is a stretch imo.

[Waldo]

Where did I say Cullen is a 3-4 olb? The point is Cullen is a 4-3 de.

No. Cullen Jenkins is a 4-3 defensive tackle (specifically an under-tackle) who has the quickness to play outside as a run-stopping specialist at defensive end in the 4-3 defense. That's precisely the sort of player you want at a 3-4 DE.

The point is Cullen is most effective in space. Cullen is physically not like brother Kris -- physically equipped to play double teams inm traffic.

Again Cullen is an effective run stuffer and pass rusher playing in space playing outside the offensive tackle. Expecting Cullen to consistently take on multiple blockers in line traffic is a stretch imo.

1 gap 5 technique DE's do not take on multiple blockers, otherwise the OLB has an unblocked run to either the QB or back.

4-3 DE's do not play in space. Cullen is equally as effective as a 3 tech DT as at RDE. 5 tech is a blend of those two positions, and he will have a clear gap between him and the QB (B gap) that a blocker will have to step into, as opposed to him having to go around someone.

[Lurker64]

The point is Cullen is most effective in space. Cullen is physically not like brother Kris -- physically equipped to play double teams inm traffic.

Again Cullen is an effective run stuffer and pass rusher playing in space playing outside the offensive tackle. Expecting Cullen to consistently take on multiple blockers in line traffic is a stretch imo.

I'm not sure you've ever seen Cullen Jenkins. He's not on the end because he's good in space. In the Bates defense he was hardly ever asked to play in space. He was a tackle you could move outside because he was very quick off the snap.

Comparing him to Kris is not accurate, because Kris is a NT and not a 3-4 DE. You don't expect your 3-4 DEs to be able to play NT, it's a fundamentally different position.

Moreover, considering that the Capers 3-4 is a one-gap system, he will not be expected to face consistent double teams. If they elect to double team him, frequently, that will not be a problem as that will result in one or more rushers being unblocked. The point of the Capers 3-4 is to confuse blocking systems with switches, slants, gap charges, and loops to create confusion in blocking assignments.

Moreover, Jenkins was never a particularly good pass-rusher from the outside. The bulk of his sacks over his career were when he was playing as a defensive tackle. In 2004, 2005, and 2006 when he was a DT he recorded 4.5, 3.0, and 6.5 sacks. In 2007 when he was moved to DE he recorded 1 sack and in 2008 at DE he recorded 2.5 sacks. I don't know where you get this "effective at playing in space" line. He was an effective pass rusher inside, and a good run-stopper outside. This is why 3-4 DE is such a perfect position for him since "inside pass rush" and "outside run stopping" are precisely his responsibilities in the scheme.

[rbaloha1]

Lots of mumble jumble terminology. (sorry) Cullen was initially effective as a situational pass rushing specialist in the 4-3 scheme.

KGB's ineffectiveness prompted Cullen inserted into the lineup against the 49ers in the 06 season after Frank Gore had a big run. Cullen performed well and was rewarded with a large contract.

Space means as a de in the 4-3 no player is to Cullen's right side.

In the 3-4 Cullen will continually be surrounded in traffic (no space). IMO not Cullen strength. The referral to his brother is showing Cullen may not be physically equipped to handle the continual pounding inside.

Recall Chewy predicted Kampy was not a good fit at olb due Kampy's great ability play in space as a 4-3 end.

[KYPack]

The point is Cullen is most effective in space. Cullen is physically not like brother Kris -- physically equipped to play double teams inm traffic.

Again Cullen is an effective run stuffer and pass rusher playing in space playing outside the offensive tackle. Expecting Cullen to consistently take on multiple blockers in line traffic is a stretch imo.

I'm not sure you've ever seen Cullen Jenkins. He's not on the end because he's good in space. In the Bates defense he was hardly ever asked to play in space. He was a tackle you could move outside because he was very quick off the snap.

Comparing him to Kris is not accurate, because Kris is a NT and not a 3-4 DE. You don't expect your 3-4 DEs to be able to play NT, it's a fundamentally different position.

Moreover, considering that the Capers 3-4 is a one-gap system, he will not be expected to face consistent double teams. If they elect to double team him, frequently, that will not be a problem as that will result in one or more rushers being unblocked. The point of the Capers 3-4 is to confuse blocking systems with switches, slants, gap charges, and loops to create confusion in blocking assignments.

Moreover, Jenkins was never a particularly good pass-rusher from the outside. The bulk of his sacks over his career were when he was playing as a defensive tackle. In 2004, 2005, and 2006 when he was a DT he recorded 4.5, 3.0, and 6.5 sacks. In 2007 when he was moved to DE he recorded 1 sack and in 2008 at DE he recorded 2.5 sacks. I don't know where you get this "effective at playing in space" line. He was an effective pass rusher inside, and a good run-stopper outside. This is why 3-4 DE is such a perfect position for him since "inside pass rush" and "outside run stopping" are precisely his responsibilities in the scheme.

Lurk, where did you get the data that listed the player's production at the respective position's? That's good stuff.

I also would like to know how you could figure out which teams played a 3-4 at a particular time. I've wondered how teams fared in their first season with the 3-4.

I'd just like to read somebody else's work, I don't feel like doing all that shit myself! (insert wimpy smiley here)

[sheepshead]

Partial says we need a quarterback.

[Waldo]

I also would like to know how you could figure out which teams played a 3-4 at a particular time. I've wondered how teams fared in their first season with the 3-4.

I'd just like to read somebody else's work, I don't feel like doing all that shit myself! (insert wimpy smiley here)

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=16743&start=40

I did that the other day in that thread for all of the current 3-4 and hybrid teams.

I was actually pretty stunned. Unless coached by Mike Nolan, all of them improved significantly their first year running a 3-4 over the previous year as a 4-3 or hybrid.