Greatest Packer Team Ever? An Analysis.

[woodbuck27]

How about the '62 packers?

13-1 regular season

NFL Championsip won in NY.

Vince always thought that was his best team.

Yes.

The 1962 Green Bay Packer Team, is certainly considered as one of 'the Greatest Teams in the History of the NFL for a single season's results.

The 1962 Green Bay Packers were the last great NFL team of the pre-Super Bowl era.

Led by legendary head coach Vince Lombardi, the Packers rumbled through the regular NFL season winning 13 games with just one loss.

In fact, the Packers outscored their opponents by an amazing score of 415-148.

The Packers started the 1962 season by winning all six of their preseason games. When the regular season arrived, they rolled by their first four opponents by a total score of 109-14. The most convincing of these victories was at the expense of the Chicago Bears in week three. On a day that the Packers could seemingly do no wrong, they destoyed their biggest, and most-bitter rival, 49-0.

Green Bay went on to record ten-consecutive victories to start the season, with the only team to put up much of a fight being the Detroit Lions. In game four, Detroit was able to keep the final score at 9-7, giving Green Bay their smallest margin of victory for the season.

Maybe the struggle with Detroit was a sign of things to come as the Lions, in game eleven, were able to hand the Packers their only loss of the season, 26-14. Detroit's defensive line, led by Alex Karras, was able to smother quarterback Bart Starr and the Green Bay offense. But as is the case with most great teams, the Packers bounced right back and defeated their next three opponents to finish the season.

The Packers opponent in the NFL Championship Game was the New York Giants, a team that they had humiliated in the 1961 championship game, 37-0.

The Giants were set on avenging the loss, but the play of linebacker Ray Nitschke, seemed to thwart every scoring attempt by the New York offense. Nitschke helped stop an early drive by the Giants at the Green Bay 10-yard line when he tipped a pass that was then picked off. He also came up with two fumble recoveries, one that led to a touchdown and another that led to a field goal. His stellar play led to his being named the game's MVP.

The Packers went on to a 16-7 victory over the Giants to give them the championship for the second-consecutive year, and also establish them as one of the NFL's all time great teams.

[KYPack]

Most of this is from memory, but I think it's accurate.

In 1976 there were two players over 300 lbs in the NFL. By 1996 there were 150+ players over 300 lbs in the league. Many people use this an example of the superiority of current teams over the teams of 30 & 40 years ago.

Although it's probably true that teams of today have advantages (especially strategically) over the teams of the past. I doubt it's as great as some fans seem to think.

The one trend that isn't a big positive difference is the huge (also read fat) lineman. There are more big lineman now than in the past, but it doesn't mean that the 60's era lineman would be sadly overmatched in an actual game.

The trend to the hulking OLineman was actually started by the Packers, in a reverse kind of way. All teams HAD to stop the Packer sweep. So they spread out and put extra defenders in the way of the sweep. That's how the 3-4 really got started. You can't run the sweep against the wide defenses and teams stopped trying to do so. That meant that agile guards that could pull both ways weren't needed. Eventually teams went for huge guys at guard who couldn't pull, but were impossible to bull rush in passing situations.

So now you have huge immobile lineman who can't be knocked off their feet in passing situations. All trends ebb & flow. Some teams (like the Packers) are trying to run wide once again by going to the ZBS. this offense requires agile lineman (espec guards) who run a zone blocking scheme to either side. (These small agile lineman are 290 lbs!)

The pendulum swings back the other way!

I'd LOVE to see the '62 Packers play the '85 Bears.

It would be a close game and both teams would fight to the final gun!

[MJZiggy]

290...small....Ha!!!

[woodbuck27]

Re: KYPack

Most of this is from memory, but I think it's accurate.

In 1976 there were two players over 300 lbs in the NFL. By 1996 there were 150+ players over 300 lbs in the league. Many people use this an example of the superiority of current teams over the teams of 30 & 40 years ago.

woodbuck27: I say - that is direct evidence of the success of the burger / fast food franchises - like McDonald's and Burger King.

Although it's probably true that teams of today have advantages (especially strategically) over the teams of the past. I doubt it's as great as some fans seem to think.

The one trend that isn't a big positive difference is the huge (also read fat) lineman. There are more big lineman now than in the past, but it doesn't mean that the 60's era lineman would be sadly overmatched in an actual game.

The trend to the hulking OLineman was actually started by the Packers, in a reverse kind of way. All teams HAD to stop the Packer sweep. So they spread out and put extra defenders in the way of the sweep. That's how the 3-4 really got started. You can't run the sweep against the wide defenses and teams stopped trying to do so. That meant that agile guards that could pull both ways weren't needed. Eventually teams went for huge guys at guard who couldn't pull, but were impossible to bull rush in passing situations.

So now you have huge immobile lineman who can't be knocked off their feet in passing situations. All trends ebb & flow. Some teams (like the Packers) are trying to run wide once again by going to the ZBS. this offense requires agile lineman (espec guards) who run a zone blocking scheme to either side. (These small agile lineman are 290 lbs!)

The pendulum swings back the other way!

I'd LOVE to see the '62 Packers play the '85 Bears.

It would be a close game and both teams would fight to the final gun!

woodbuck27:

Someone will one day run a program on a computer to check out such a match-up KY. That one would be very interesting.

It's generally not a team in any given season but a team over a period of years that is the more valid measure of it's true strength and status in an historical sense.

[oregonpackfan]

I too have been faithfully following the Packers since '59. I also agree with the view that the '62 Packers were the best Packer team ever. They were loaded with talent on both offense and defense.

One aspect that has not been considered in comparing teams of the 90's and 2000's with the team of '62 is that in today's NFL there are 32 teams. I am not sure of the number(perhaps 16) but there were far fewer NFL teams in the 60's. The team's roster numbers in the 60's were far smaller(around 40) than today's 53(am not sure about the official number).

Basically, it was far more difficult to make it in the NFL in the 60's than it was today.

Oregonpackfan

[Harlan Huckleby]

Basically, it was far more difficult to make it in the NFL in the 60's than it was today.

You might be right, but I'm not sure. U.S. population has grown from about 180 million in '62 to around 300 million. With the big money in pro sports today, is there a larger pool of athletes at college level who are training and focusing on pro career? Did the pros recruit from as many colleges as they do now? I guess they only scouted big schools in 62.

[Patler]

Basically, it was far more difficult to make it in the NFL in the 60's than it was today.

You might be right, but I'm not sure. U.S. population has grown from about 180 million in '62 to around 300 million. With the big money in pro sports today, is there a larger pool of athletes at college level who are training and focusing on pro career? Did the pros recruit from as many colleges as they do now? I guess they only scouted big schools in 62.

The draft was 24 rounds in 1962. Players from small colleges routinely were drafted and had a chance in camp, which went on for ever. There were six preseason games. Plenty of competition for 40 roster spots, and varying numbers on the old "taxi" squads (usually between 4 and 8, but it varied different years).

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it's hard to compare generations, and I don't even like to do it. Of course, the players are much better athletes today. Many of the players back then would not have been able to compete in today's professional football. That's just fact. There were OL that weren't over 250 pounds back then. There weren't many DEs and LBs that could run like the guys today. However, that shouldn't matter. When comparing athletes and teams between generations, you have to compare them to the people they competed against. Training is a lot better nowadays and the NFL wasn't an all year proposition. Back then, many of the players had to work in the offseason because they didn't get paid enough to make it a full-time job.

IMHO, the '62 team was the best Packers team of all-time. However, the '96 team was right there with them and ranks amongst the best also. The '66 team was getting old, and I don't think they could have competed with the '62 team.

[woodbuck27]

1962 NFL CHampionship

December 30, 1962

Yankee Stadium, New York
Green Bay (16) over New York Giants (7)


40 mph winds and 13 degree temps make for a ground battle. Giants cut Packer lead to 10-7 in the 3rd quarter on a blocked end-zone punt but outstanding defensive effort by Ray Nitschke (2 fumble recoveries and deflection that led to an interception) and two more Jerry Kramer field goals ice the game for the Packers.

NFL Championship: Packers vs. New York Giants


Out front all the way in a raw, cyclonic setting (13-degree temperatures and 40-mile per hour winds), Packers weather siege by vengeful Giants in primitive, hand-to-hand struggle. Ray Nitschke proves principal frustration to New Yorkers, seeking redemption for shutout humiliation in '61 title game. His deflection triggers interception to blunt early Giant drive to Green Bay 10. On way to being named game's most valuable player, he also registers two fumble recoveries, one of which led to the Packers' only touchdown of the afternoon. The other set up a 29-yard field goal by Jerry Kramer, whose trio of three-pointers provided the eventual margin.

Giants' only TD comes on block of Max McGee punt in Green Bay end zone midway through the third quarter.

A battered Jim Taylor sets playoff record with 31 rushing attempts, good for 85 yards.

G.B. - FG J.Kramer 26
G.B. - Taylor 7 run (J.Kramer kick)
N.Y. - Collier blocked punt recovery in end zone (Chandler kick)
G.B. - FG J.Kramer 29
G.B. - FG J.Kramer 30

[Creepy]

Trying to pick the best ever is futile. Picking by eras is better. For those who think the players of the 60s couldn't play in the 80s, let just make a small change in things and see if that is true.

Most player smoked in the NFL in the 60s. You could find them advertising cigarrettes in magazines. Not very healthy. Because they didn't mak the money todays players do, they had to get jobs during the off-season to actually feed their families (unlike todays who can't feed their wife and kid on 2 million a year). Let the 60s players have the medical services that are around now, half the career ending injuries would have been playing the next season. State of the art sports complexes with saunas, jacuzzis, whirlpools and top physical fitness staffs to work in them.

I believe a few of the 260-270 OL could have moved up to the 280-300 range and been as effective. I think Bullet Bob Hayes or Lance Rentzel could have been great receivers today. A lot ofthose WR would be good today, justthink how it would have been for them if they didn't have DBs poundingthem up and down the line.

A better play would be to see just how good todays players would be playing in the 60s. Only 39 players on a team, most teams you punted and played a position (Hornung Kicker/HB, Mcgee WR/Punter) or the kicker did punting and FGs. Centers were long snappers. Starting hbs, WRs and DBs were return men and played on special teams.

OL had to keep their hands in, you push out and it was holding. The headslap was legal by DL. Good God, could you imagine Reggie clubbing the player instead of just throwing him aside?

WR, how good would todays receiver be if the DB was knocking and pushing him for the entire length of the field. LBs and safeties taking WRs heads off as they ran across the middle 7 yards deep.

QBs, can't throw it away, the helmet in the small of the back or under the chin was routine. Hit the QB in the head tryingto knock the ball down was not a penalty. Outside the tackles just meant the QB was in big trouble.

You can't compare eras, just like the boys who played it in the 30s/40s.

How many of todays players would want to wear a leather helmet with no face mask, ouside in GB in December with a blanket to keep them warm or a some wood burning in a barrel.

The game has come a long way, and the equipment and rules changes have made it different from era to era. In 20 years it will change more, but the one that doesn't change is you still have to beat the guy across from you to win. Maybe thats why even with the changes it is still the greatest sport in the world (at least to me).

[woodbuck27]

Very insightful post Creepy.

Interesting deeper look.