Packers young O-linemen

[Patler]

I read an article the last day or two that I wanted to post a link for, but now I can't find it. Does anyone else remember the following:

The article quoted one of the infamous "anonymous NFL scouts", who essentially said the feeling around the league is that TT has done a very good job in drafting O-line talent with Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Sitton; but the coaching staff so far has totally botched their development, primarily from trying to cross-train them so much. I got the impression that MM's proclamation of letting guys settle into a position may have been mandated from higher up.

Anyone else remember this, or know where I might have seen it?

[cpk1994]

Re: Packers young O-linemen

I read an article the last day or two that I wanted to post a link for, but now I can't find it. Does anyone else remember the following:

The article quoted one of the infamous "anonymous NFL scouts", who essentially said the feeling around the league is that TT has done a very good job in drafting O-line talent with Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Sitton; but the coaching staff so far has totally botched their development, primarily from trying to cross-train them so much. I got the impression that MM's proclamation of letting guys settle into a position may have been mandated from higher up.

Anyone else remember this, or know where I might have seen it?

M3 has been shuffling OL like a deck of cards for 3 years. How are OL supposed to improve if they are constantly changing position. THis proclimation may have come from higher up, but it should have been followed from the day M3 was hired.

[Waldo]

Packer Update.

[Waldo]

I disagree about the whole development thing though. IMO MM views G as a fungible position. There are no true G's on the roster.

What is the best way to develop a LT of the future, play LT on the scout team, or play LG on Sundays? Enter Colledge.

Or C. Wells is a center only, a very low value OL position. Spitz is a C/G best suited at C. As long as Wells is better than the next best option at G (he has been). He'll stay at C and Spitz at G. What is the best use of Spitz, playing C for the scout team, or playing G on Sundays?

We are poised for the next group. Sitton (a RT/RG) has enough playing time that he'll beat Spitz at RG next year. Colledge is ready to move up to T, whether the right or left (he's best on the left). If there is legitimate full competition at all positions and the best player at each position (not in a more important position) played there, next year we'd have a line of:

Colledge-Barbre-Spitz-Sitton-Breno/Moll

But that won't happen unless Clifton is benchably bad. 8M/yr doesn't sit on the bench.

So, I think we take the next LT/LG of the future in the draft, start him just like we did Colledge, and draft a RTO or RT/RG to compete with Moll/Breno for a roster spot, and use a line of:

Clifton-DP-Spitz-Sitton-Colledge (boy Grant/Jackson would have a good year)

Then in '10, Colledge finally goes to his best position, draft another RT/RG and we have:

Colledge-DP-Spitz-Sitton-Barbre/Breno/Moll/DP/DP

[Patler]

I was ready for Barbe-Spitz-Sitton in the middle of the line last year, or at lest Colledge-Spitz-Sitton. The injury to Sitton put that on hold.

I am less convinced than many of you are that Colledge is the long-term answer at LT. They have talked about taking a look at Barbre there this year, and I would like to see that. Not that I am convinced it will work, but I think it is worth a look. Something apparently hasn't clicked for him in the transition to guard from LT where he spent his college career. I would like to see if LT is more natural for him.

[Fritz]

Again, speculation, but early reports on Barbre appeared to show that a lot of things didn't click for that guy.

[Bossman641]

Again, speculation, but early reports on Barbre appeared to show that a lot of things didn't click for that guy.

Yea, plus he punched a coach out.






















Kidding, hopefully we can finally put that rumor to bed.

[KYPack]

Again, speculation, but early reports on Barbre appeared to show that a lot of things didn't click for that guy.

Yea, plus he punched a coach out.

Kidding, hopefully we can finally put that rumor to bed.

Boss, you fooled me with that clever use of the enter key.
Maybe we outta start more phony rumors on here, take PackerChatters rep away from 'em.

Waldo, Ya made me learn a word

Fungible

1. (legal def) Returnable or negotiable in kind or by substitution, as a quantity of grain for an equal amount of the same kind of grain.
2. Interchangeable.
n.
Something that is exchangeable or substitutable. Often used in the plural.

Can't believe I've wandered the earth so long and never heard that word before.

I agree with and have my own take on the ideas for the Oline forwarded here. I think if we sign Tauch, he starts, but we work in other guys. Cliffy is about done, but we keep Colledge at G. I like Wells. Everybody bad raps him, says he gets rag dolled, etc.etc, but I think HE is our best interior lineman. He drives blocks better than Spitz. He snaps better than Spits, why is Spitz everybody's' choice at C?

Sitton impresses me as a guy who can root hog holes for us in the middle of the line. I really thought Barbre would come to the fore last season, but that's one in a line of things that disappointed me last year.

The big thing I have for the Oline this season is some good 'ol TBP optimism. We've kept this bunch together and stuck with 'em. These young guys are maturing and should bring returns in terms of skill and strength. That's gotta pay off sometime, doesn't it?

One thing that was mentioned has to happen. Create a depth chart. If a guy goes down, replace him with a back-up. No more 3 guys change jobs to cover one new player. it hasn't really worked for us. Go back to the ancient way of doing things in the line.

It's a medieval job, let's use medieval strategy.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good outlook, KY.

I'm not so sure about the "ancient way", though. It seems to me that having a bunch of guys who can play anywhere across the line is a good thing to fall back on. The alternative is having your number one sub sitting on the bench if the wrong guy gets hurt.

A lot depends on how Clifton starts out in camp. If he isn't physically too far gone, I think he starts. That situation determines Colledge's status, which affects Spitz and/or Sitton, etc.

[run pMc]

I wished they'd settled on a lineup 2 years ago. Sometimes I'm still not sure what they have on the OL.

I agree with KY...I'm of the opinion that if your RT goes down and you slide your RG over to T and bring in a bench guy to play RG you've actually weakened two spots...just have your RG stay put and bring in a RT.

Having said that, there is something to be said for...um...fungible players that can play at multiple spots.

[Fritz]

Again, speculation, but early reports on Barbre appeared to show that a lot of things didn't click for that guy.

Yea, plus he punched a coach out.

Kidding, hopefully we can finally put that rumor to bed.

Boss, you fooled me with that clever use of the enter key.
Maybe we outta start more phony rumors on here, take PackerChatters rep away from 'em.

Waldo, Ya made me learn a word

Fungible

1. (legal def) Returnable or negotiable in kind or by substitution, as a quantity of grain for an equal amount of the same kind of grain.
2. Interchangeable.
n.
Something that is exchangeable or substitutable. Often used in the plural.

Can't believe I've wandered the earth so long and never heard that word before.

I agree with and have my own take on the ideas for the Oline forwarded here. I think if we sign Tauch, he starts, but we work in other guys. Cliffy is about done, but we keep Colledge at G. I like Wells. Everybody bad raps him, says he gets rag dolled, etc.etc, but I think HE is our best interior lineman. He drives blocks better than Spitz. He snaps better than Spits, why is Spitz everybody's' choice at C?

Sitton impresses me as a guy who can root hog holes for us in the middle of the line. I really thought Barbre would come to the fore last season, but that's one in a line of things that disappointed me last year.

The big thing I have for the Oline this season is some good 'ol TBP optimism. We've kept this bunch together and stuck with 'em. These young guys are maturing and should bring returns in terms of skill and strength. That's gotta pay off sometime, doesn't it?

One thing that was mentioned has to happen. Create a depth chart. If a guy goes down, replace him with a back-up. No more 3 guys change jobs to cover one new player. it hasn't really worked for us. Go back to the ancient way of doing things in the line.

It's a medieval job, let's use medieval strategy.

I heard that Barbre got fungible with a coach.

I think some cross training is okay, but I don't like all this sliding guys over, and all that. Your five best athletes, yeah, but there's a lot to be said for continuity when it comes to offensive lines, so just plugging another bod in for the one that got hurt has some thing to be said for it. Besides, haven't the Packers been drafting enough of these guys in the last few years that the backups ought to be pretty functional?

[KYPack]

Good outlook, KY.

I'm not so sure about the "ancient way", though. It seems to me that having a bunch of guys who can play anywhere across the line is a good thing to fall back on. The alternative is having your number one sub sitting on the bench if the wrong guy gets hurt.

A lot depends on how Clifton starts out in camp. If he isn't physically too far gone, I think he starts. That situation determines Colledge's status, which affects Spitz and/or Sitton, etc.

I want 'em to be versatile, sure. Just do not see the percentage in make 2 or 3 shifts when only one man is out of the lineup. I can't say if that is Philbin or Campen's philosophy, but I think it's a flawed-ass idea.

Tex, I thought you were from the days of leather helmets and daubing mud on a broken leg? You like all these space age switches?

I really do think another year of maturity will help the OLine.

At least I hope so.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good outlook, KY.

I'm not so sure about the "ancient way", though. It seems to me that having a bunch of guys who can play anywhere across the line is a good thing to fall back on. The alternative is having your number one sub sitting on the bench if the wrong guy gets hurt.

A lot depends on how Clifton starts out in camp. If he isn't physically too far gone, I think he starts. That situation determines Colledge's status, which affects Spitz and/or Sitton, etc.

I want 'em to be versatile, sure. Just do not see the percentage in make 2 or 3 shifts when only one man is out of the lineup. I can't say if that is Philbin or Campen's philosophy, but I think it's a flawed-ass idea.

Tex, I thought you were from the days of leather helmets and daubing mud on a broken leg? You like all these space age switches?

I really do think another year of maturity will help the OLine.

At least I hope so.

Didn't Campen float between center and guard when he played? And I think he was a contemporary of Mike Flanigan--who was kinda the prototype of this versatility thing.

Yeah, KY, I'm old--thanks a helluva lot for reminding me. I look at this more like a sixth man in basketball or a utility infielder in baseball. If Michael Jordan goes down, and the best scorer on your bench is a forward, you switch Pippen to SG.

[Patler]

Didn't Campen float between center and guard when he played? And I think he was a contemporary of Mike Flanigan--who was kinda the prototype of this versatility thing.

I don't remember Campen floating between G & C, but Frank Winters did, and started some games at guard for the Packers. Winters took over at center when Campen got hurt. Flanagan was drafted several years after Campen was gone.