3-4 Depth Chart

[HarveyWallbangers]

Because with all the Thompson love in the State of Wisconsin the shit will surely run down hill off of Thompson, and McCarthy and splatter all over Capers because you know Thompson and McCarthy once got this team to the playoffs.

You haven't been reading the comments at JSO, have you?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41033947.html

[Deputy Nutz]

No,

[Partial]

There is an unexplainable amount of TT love on this board. He really hasn't done anything to deserve it imo. The teams he has put together have been very inconsistent, and as we're seeing this year, he likes to go with his guys, even if they're injury prone.

Going into the season banking on more than one person lasting a season out of the triumvirate of Jolly, Jenkins and Justin is a big miscalculation imo.

[sharpe1027]

There is an unexplainable amount of TT love on this board. He really hasn't done anything to deserve it imo. The teams he has put together have been very inconsistent, and as we're seeing this year, he likes to go with his guys, even if they're injury prone.

Going into the season banking on more than one person lasting a season out of the triumvirate of Jolly, Jenkins and Justin is a big miscalculation imo.

No doubt that the Packers have been inconsistent, but refuting badly formulated criticisms of TT is hardly love for TT.

He likes to go with his guys? You can do better than that. I am sure that you you can come up with an even more general criticism that could be applied to most of the GMs in the league.

[rbaloha1]

There is an unexplainable amount of TT love on this board. He really hasn't done anything to deserve it imo. The teams he has put together have been very inconsistent, and as we're seeing this year, he likes to go with his guys, even if they're injury prone.

TT assembles the talent. MM and staff coach them. Inconsistency is not TT's fault. Point blame at MM and staff.

[Patler]

he likes to go with his guys, even if they're injury prone.

Is not every player on the roster the GM's guy?
Aren't Woodson, Pickett and Chiller "TT's guys"?
Do you want him to have another GM pick his team, or just open it up to voting by the fans?

OF COURSE he sticks with "his guys" even when injured. He drafted them for a reason, and he will give them opportunities to show they can get past the injuries. I would expect nothing less.

Woodson was considered injury prone in Oakland. He missed 24 games his last four seasons in Oakland. Luckily, that didn't scare off Thompson.

[Partial]

I'm saying rather than bring someone else in who is not injury prone, he would rather risk it with injury prone guys. He did last year, and that turned out to be a bad call, yet it appears we're doing the same thing again.

Practicing insanity

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm saying rather than bring someone else in who is not injury prone, he would rather risk it with injury prone guys. He did last year, and that turned out to be a bad call, yet it appears we're doing the same thing again.

What guys that a reasonable person would consider "injury prone" did we count on as starters heading into last year?

[sharpe1027]

I'm saying rather than bring someone else in who is not injury prone, he would rather risk it with injury prone guys. He did last year, and that turned out to be a bad call, yet it appears we're doing the same thing again.

Practicing insanity

I am sure that he prefers to have injury-prone guys. Clearly there were all of these much better options, at every position, knocking on his door asking to play for free. Seriously, it isn't as simple as snapping your fingers and signing quality starters.

How about giving up even little bit of your partiality, partial? In hindsight, injuries did hurt last year, but what GM hasn't had a tough year because of injuries?

He appears to still have a full compliment of draft picks and free agents to pick from. What exactly did you expect him to do? Blow the entire budget on a single, average, defensive linemen. I am sure you would have complained about that too.

[Partial]

I'm saying rather than bring someone else in who is not injury prone, he would rather risk it with injury prone guys. He did last year, and that turned out to be a bad call, yet it appears we're doing the same thing again.

What guys that a reasonable person would consider "injury prone" did we count on as starters heading into last year?

Jolly - coming off a major surgery, injury prone throughout college (2nd round talent, fell to 6th round because of injury).
Jenkins - Historically has been a walking injury, had a dissapointing 2007 campaign because of nagging injuries.
Harrell - wasn't expected to be a starter, but didn't bring in any solid DT depth and they expected him to the guy.

They're basically going with the same guys this year, and that is not a good thing imo.

I'm not saying that they prefer injury prone guys. Obviously no one would. The point I am making is this is a big risk to go into the season without adding some significant depth behind these guys. Significant as in the amount of players, not necessarily the quality. TT needs to recognize the fact that these guys historically have been injured more often than he'd like, and that he needs to have a back-up plan in case. You cannot go in assuming last year's performance was a fluke knowing the injury history of these guys.

[sharpe1027]

Jolly - coming off a major surgery, injury prone throughout college (2nd round talent, fell to 6th round because of injury).
Jenkins - Historically has been a walking injury, had a dissapointing 2007 campaign because of nagging injuries.
Harrell - wasn't expected to be a starter, but didn't bring in any solid DT depth and they expected him to the guy.

They're basically going with the same guys this year, and that is not a good thing imo.

I'm not saying that they prefer injury prone guys. Obviously no one would. The point I am making is this is a big risk to go into the season without adding some significant depth behind these guys. Significant as in the amount of players, not necessarily the quality. TT needs to recognize the fact that these guys historically have been injured more often than he'd like, and that he needs to have a back-up plan in case. You cannot go in assuming last year's performance was a fluke knowing the injury history of these guys.

Yes. I am about 95% sure that the Packers consider injury history of their players every year. I am not saying that they shouldn't try to build depth at the DL, far from it. I do, however, question your partiality, partial.

The reality is that you can never have a two full teams of quality starters. If you do a good job, you can have a few guys good enough to start elsewhere on the bench. Even so, there will always be a drop off from the starters (unless the coaches have the wrong guy starting). There are always trade-offs in where you have your depth. The Packers suffered significant injuries to their DBs (I am pretty sure that they lost their top three safeties at one point as well as having Harris out) and had injuies to their pro-bowl LBer and tackle, neither of which had significant injury histories. At each of those positions, the depth was pretty solid.

The Packers drafted a few DL in J. Harrell and J. Thompson. They had Cole and a few other bodies. Honestly, many NFL teams struggle to find TWO starters that are good pass-rushing DEs. Ripping on the Packers depth at the position after everything else you have said regarding TT just reeks of an agenda.

Bottom line, I am pretty sure that the Packer's realize that adding depth is a good thing. So, what is your point exactly?

[Partial]

They don't need stars on the DL. That is a nice thing with the 3-4. They just need a few big, strong bodies. Vonnie Holliday and Kevin Carter would be two absolutely perfect additions for a season or two. Those two, and then drafting Raji would immediately solidify the line.

Carter and Holliday will be fairly cheap. No reason they both can't get done

[red]

the good thing about the 3-4 is that some of these guys should be easier to find in the draft. those guys that we use to avoid because they were tweeners, now those are the guys we want.

smaller DT's that aren't quick enough to be a 4-3 de, but aren't quite big enough to be a solid DT. like 285-300. those are the guys we're looking for in the 3-4, they make perfect 3-4 de's. and there are a lot of those guys in this draft, we should have no problem finding one or 2

those tiny college speed ruchers, those guys that are 245-255 pound de's that are way too small to be an nfl de, those guys are perfect as OLB in the 3-4. and those guys are everywhere, seems like all college de's are tiny speed rushers these days

the only guy that is tough to find just so happens to be the most important one, the NT. theres only 3 or 4 guys in this whole draft that are big enough to even pull it off, and a couple of them have huge question marks. we only have 1 on the roster, and there really isn't anything in the free agent market. we almost have to jump on one those few guys in the draft

[sharpe1027]

They don't need stars on the DL. That is a nice thing with the 3-4. They just need a few big, strong bodies. Vonnie Holliday and Kevin Carter would be two absolutely perfect additions for a season or two. Those two, and then drafting Raji would immediately solidify the line.

Carter and Holliday will be fairly cheap. No reason they both can't get done

Fair enough. IMHO, your discussion points come-off better when you don't try to use them as a back-door insult directed at TT.

Maybe the Packers will end up doing one or more of you suggestions. Ever since the coaching staff was solidified, I would guess that they have been going full-steam ahead with identifying potential weak spots and potential fixes. My guess is that Capers has some ideas on what they will need. That might mean that he does like those guys or he might not.

I am excited to see how things turn out.

[KYPack]

I'm worried about the transition.

Some guys are good defensive players. You can line 'em up in any scheme and they will adapt and cover & get their tackles. Other guys flourish in one scheme and flop in the new one.

The guy I always think of is Jonathan Vilma. Vilma is a decent Mike. He can cover and fill equally well and is a good hand in a 4-3 as the Mike. As a Jack ILB in the 3-4 for the Jets, he flopped around like a fish on the deck. He never "got" the 3-4. He was a poor jack and Mangini whipping boy. The Jets moved him to the Saints and Vilma was fine. In fact, he helped lead a rather marginal bunch of defenders.

Lot's of supposition on here has to be taken with a grain of salt. People who say Kamp will be a good OLB in a 3-4 don't know what they are talking about. Because Dom Capers still doesn't know if some of these guys can do their new jobs.

Not until we get lined up and start playing, will we have any idea which guys will fit in this new defense. The first year of transition could be a real nightmare. I hope not, but it well could be a bummer.