3-4 Depth Chart

[Fritz]

KY, I have been intrigued by the competing philosophies about who fits in what defense. Some folks argue that a good athlete is a good athlete is a good athlete and therefore can fit into any scheme. That's the basic argument most people make when arguing that Kampman will be great in this 3-4 scheme (though to be fair Patler argues that he used to be a linebacker so it's not a big transition).

On the other hand, others argue that certain players "fit" into certain schemes - they'll be great in one but suck in the other.

I don't know which I buy, or if maybe it's a little of both. But it's been an interesting thread in the whole conversation. Most people seem to feel that youneed certain types of players for certain schemes, yet some of those same folks also argue that Hawk (for example) will do fine as in inside 3-4 guy because he's a good football player.

I guess we'll see, huh?

[sharpe1027]

I'm worried about the transition.

Some guys are good defensive players. You can line 'em up in any scheme and they will adapt and cover & get their tackles. Other guys flourish in one scheme and flop in the new one.

The guy I always think of is Jonathan Vilma. Vilma is a decent Mike. He can cover and fill equally well and is a good hand in a 4-3 as the Mike. As a Jack ILB in the 3-4 for the Jets, he flopped around like a fish on the deck. He never "got" the 3-4. He was a poor jack and Mangini whipping boy. The Jets moved him to the Saints and Vilma was fine. In fact, he helped lead a rather marginal bunch of defenders.

Lot's of supposition on here has to be taken with a grain of salt. People who say Kamp will be a good OLB in a 3-4 don't know what they are talking about. Because Dom Capers still doesn't know if some of these guys can do their new jobs.

Not until we get lined up and start playing, will we have any idea which guys will fit in this new defense. The first year of transition could be a real nightmare. I hope not, but it well could be a bummer.

People who say Kamp will be a good OLB in a 3-4 don't know what they are talking about...

That's a strong statement, that is bound to stir the pot. I think it shows a lack of understanding of the conversation. People have argued that Kampman cannot make the transition, some people have argued that he can. While points about why he might make the transition have been brought up a lot, nobody, that I recall, has said he will be good for sure. I for one don't think that people presenting reasoned arguments about why Kampman might be fine in the transition is going out on a limb or shows a lack of knowledge. I think most people on both sides of the argument realize that it is all projection.

[KYPack]

I'm worried about the transition.

Some guys are good defensive players. You can line 'em up in any scheme and they will adapt and cover & get their tackles. Other guys flourish in one scheme and flop in the new one.

The guy I always think of is Jonathan Vilma. Vilma is a decent Mike. He can cover and fill equally well and is a good hand in a 4-3 as the Mike. As a Jack ILB in the 3-4 for the Jets, he flopped around like a fish on the deck. He never "got" the 3-4. He was a poor jack and Mangini whipping boy. The Jets moved him to the Saints and Vilma was fine. In fact, he helped lead a rather marginal bunch of defenders.

Lot's of supposition on here has to be taken with a grain of salt. People who say Kamp will be a good OLB in a 3-4 don't know what they are talking about. Because Dom Capers still doesn't know if some of these guys can do their new jobs.

Not until we get lined up and start playing, will we have any idea which guys will fit in this new defense. The first year of transition could be a real nightmare. I hope not, but it well could be a bummer.

People who say Kamp will be a good OLB in a 3-4 don't know what they are talking about...

That's a strong statement, that is bound to stir the pot. I think it shows a lack of understanding of the conversation. People have argued that Kampman cannot make the transition, some people have argued that he can. While points about why he might make the transition have been brought up a lot, nobody, that I recall, has said he will be good for sure. I for one don't think that people presenting reasoned arguments about why Kampman might be fine in the transition is going out on a limb or shows a lack of knowledge. I think most people on both sides of the argument realize that it is all projection.

Yeah, yer right, Sharpe. That was a pretty snarky post & that wasn't my intention. I really didn't mean to call people dummies or anything. The inference was way more intended that we are in a state of flux. Until these guys hit the field, we don't really know how things will shake out.

In fact, the way I worded it was a little "pretentious" (Ha).

I am really interested in seeing the transition.

For instance, I do think Kamp will be OK in this new scheme.

But, lets say we have 6 guys that have different roles in the new scheme. Hell, you could say all 11 roles change at least slightly. It wouldn't be a surprise to see 2 or 3 of 'em unable to grasp the new system. 2-3 spots not being productive would equal a pretty dysfunctional defense.

Will Jolly be a good DE in the 3-4? Man, I really don't know.

Can Pickett be a good NT? maybe, but who really knows.

Hawk and Barnett are moving to new roles and coming off some bad injuries. One or both could have big trouble adapting to new jobs.

At the same time, some guys will be better under a new system. I think Popp may finally blossom as an OLB in this set.

This new staff should be a huge upgrade from the Sanders crew. But what if Capers just doesn't find guys who can make the transistion?

I'm wondering and I just don't know.

[sharpe1027]

No problems KY. I am excited and somewhat worried myself. On the bright side, this isn't Caper's first rodeo. He has had success in converting to a 3-4 in the past. On the down side, people are rightfully concerned that the current roster might be missing a few key pieces.

[SnakeLH2006]

I think that is a pretty good list. Depending on how the draft goes, I could see them playing Hawk at ROLB and Bishop inside. I really think Bishop is a beast in waiting.

Partial ya shocked me. I formed the Bishop fan club a year ago. Still think he's a beast yet. Just wait.

But that D roster lacks some serious talent at DE and NT. God that BJ looks good.

[Merlin]

I can't get behind any list with the name Justin Harrell on it. Bishop has the talent, just waiting for him to show up. Worried about Jenkins and his injuries. Worried about Pickett and if he can play the position every down effectively. Worried about our aging corners and what effect this will have on bump and run coverage, Harris is horrible in zone coverage, safeties gamble too much, and Woodson's contract is due isn't it? I thought he signed a three year deal. Other then that we are primed to make the transition to the 1970-1980's Packers. Let's hope Dom Capers continues his coaching magic because without that, you can have 11 pro-bowlers line up and it won't matter.

[red]

I can't get behind any list with the name Justin Harrell on it. Bishop has the talent, just waiting for him to show up. Worried about Jenkins and his injuries. Worried about Pickett and if he can play the position every down effectively. Worried about our aging corners and what effect this will have on bump and run coverage, Harris is horrible in zone coverage, safeties gamble too much, and Woodson's contract is due isn't it? I thought he signed a three year deal. Other then that we are primed to make the transition to the 1970-1980's Packers. Let's hope Dom Capers continues his coaching magic because without that, you can have 11 pro-bowlers line up and it won't matter.

woodson signed a 7 year deal

and i think it was front loaded, making it easy to keep him the whole 7 years

[pack4to84]

The reason I think Kampton will be good in the 3-4 OLB spot is this.

1. He would be rushing the passer or up the field on 80% of the snaps. At a wider angle then before. His assignment will be to get up the field preventing a outside run. He would only engage with the OT if and only there is a outside run to force it back to the middle of the field. When rushing up the field if its not a run play he attacks the QB, and most likely the only blocker coming his way will be a TE/FB/RB. I like his chances vs TE/FB/RB. Because the OT will be blocking the DE.

2. 20% of the time he would be in zone in the flat. With his size it makes it harder on a QB to through a 10 yd hitch or a 10 yd out. Taking away certain type of passing routes. Also if he is in the flat again outside runs would be hard to do limiting certain type of run plays.

[Fritz]

I think that is a pretty good list. Depending on how the draft goes, I could see them playing Hawk at ROLB and Bishop inside. I really think Bishop is a beast in waiting.

Partial ya shocked me. I formed the Bishop fan club a year ago. Still think he's a beast yet. Just wait.

But that D roster lacks some serious talent at DE and NT. God that BJ looks good.

Hey, that's what I said this morning when I was on another site!

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