Sobering Stats re: Cooper's Injury

[Fritz]

I was skeptical of this common argument. It felt like the type of thing that feels right, but isn't necessary backed up by the facts. Here's what I found.
First, kigaments and tendons serve fundamentally different mechanical roles. Ligaments stabilize bone-to-bone joint translation during rotational torque; tendons transmit muscular contraction. Apples and oranges.

Second, high-load conditioning and muscular strength actually protect tendons by driving collagen remodeling and increasing structural stiffness. What actually causes them to fail isn't being "too strong"—it is asymptomatic pre-existing tissue degeneration, sudden workload spikes, and high-traction playing surfaces.
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Gonna have to change your moniker to Patler II.

Yet I do still disagree. For example, if "Ligaments stabilize bone-to-bone joint translation during rotational torque," and there's more torque due to the size/speed/strength of these players, then it would follow that ligaments would be more prone to being damaged. Same with tendons. Bigger muscles to contract, contracting while performing at higher rates of speed and more quickly, then more injuries. "Sudden workload spikes" would be the term you've used. And it seems basic physics - bigger, stronger, faster objects colliding with other bigger, stronger, faster objects, or pounding against harder surfaces (harder than the natural grass fields of the 60's).

But I like an intelligent disagreement.

[sharpe1027]

Gonna have to change your moniker to Patler II.

Yet I do still disagree. For example, if "Ligaments stabilize bone-to-bone joint translation during rotational torque," and there's more torque due to the size/speed/strength of these players, then it would follow that ligaments would be more prone to being damaged. Same with tendons. Bigger muscles to contract, contracting while performing at higher rates of speed and more quickly, then more injuries. "Sudden workload spikes" would be the term you've used. And it seems basic physics - bigger, stronger, faster objects colliding with other bigger, stronger, faster objects, or pounding against harder surfaces (harder than the natural grass fields of the 60's).

But I like an intelligent disagreement.

Appreciate the pushback, but you’re treating NFL players like a 1998 Honda Civic with a jet engine dropped under the hood and then assuming the stock transmission is bound to ex
Eplode on the first rev.

Points to consider for tendons:
When an athlete trains, their tendons don't stay factory default. Heavy strength training actually thickens the collagen and upgrades the chassis to handle the extra horsepower.

Workload spike is about "too many practice reps over three weeks after sitting on the couch," not too much power on a single cut. The tendon strength lags the muscle strength.

How many Achilles of ACLs are due to collisions? We were often talking about an untouched guy falling over on routine plants.

Where you hit the nail on the head is the playing surface. Natural grass gives and lets a cleat slip. Synthetic turf locks the cleat in place, leaving the tendon to absorb the whole bill.

Regarding ligaments:

Ligaments are only passive restraints. They are the last line of defense preventing bones from separating or rotating out of place. Muscles act as dynamic stabilizers: If you ask a trainer how to protect against ACL injuries, they say to get stronger.

[run pMc]

Cooper's young and a physical marvel, and the surgery he gets should be at the edge of the science.
That said, it likely will rob him of at least some of his previous ability. That alone might still be better that McDuffie or Hopper. I would expect it to take a solid year, possibly two before he looks like an approximation of his pre-injury self. It's a shame.

The injury itself looked like it was a completely random occurrence- nobody even touched him on the play. We don't know what caused the injury, it just happened.

[bobblehead]

This is going to be an interesting one. I do think that surgery being cleaner, his age, and BPC 157 becoming a thing the past few years will give this a better than historical shot at success. Hopefully this dude goes and spends some time in Europe and avoids drug tests and gets the Kobe treatment.

NFL tests for that, and most of the best peptides. Its how you know they work.

[bobblehead]

Not a single person commented on my exact direct comp in Greenlaw. He isn't the same player. He was regarded as a top 5 off ball LB when he blew it. And this wasn't 2010, it was only a few years ago. Cooper will likely never be the same. Honestly the packers should probably cut bait. If he recovers later they can sign him to a prove it deal. What they shouldn't do is what they will do. He will sit a lot of next year. Play maybe 8 games, look bad and blame recovery. Then he will come in and play average in 2028 saying he is still recovering. In 2029 the packers will pay him like a really good off ball LB when in reality he will be average for whatever years he has left.

[Patler]

Not a single person commented on my exact direct comp in Greenlaw. He isn't the same player. He was regarded as a top 5 off ball LB when he blew it. And this wasn't 2010, it was only a few years ago. Cooper will likely never be the same.

I don't know enough about Greenlaw before or after his injury to comment. From what I have read about him and others, no one is ever the same after an Achilles rupture. The question will be is if a diminished Cooper is just an average player or still better than average because of the level he was athletically before the injury.

[Fritz]

Given how poor many of Green Bay's linebackers have been, maybe an average Cooper would be just fine. Like driving a Mini-Cooper. It's okay and better than the 1998 Honda Civic you're taking to work.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still expect Cooper to be back at very near previous levels by the start of the 2027 season.

Fritz, your mini-cooper metaphor seems more applicable to Zaire Franklin - him as the mini-cooper and Quay as more of a poorly steered Camaro than that '98 Honda. Probably McDuffie is the '98 Honda.