Packers' FA re-signing dilemma

[Patler]

realistically, what are we looking at to resign jennings

something like 9-10 million a year? 20 million bonus money?

last year lee evan signed a 4 year 37 million dollar deal with 18 million in guaranteed money. that made him the 3rd highest paid wr at the time

IMO

jennings > evens. with more potential

would TT even keep him if he costs that much? honestly, if we sign all our own free agents to market value then we'll be right back up against the cap and maybe back in cap hell. if we can even sign them all

right back where we started

I kind of doubt that TT will spend that to keep Jennings.

I have always felt that the top WRs are among the most overpaid positions in football. I know many will disagree with me, but I have a hard time understanding why a guy who touches the ball just 7 or 8 times a game is worth that kind of money, when if you don't have him someone else will get many of those receptions anyway. I also think you can be effective with a much less expensive, second level talent at WR. Your passing game may change, but can still be productive.

[Bretsky]

realistically, what are we looking at to resign jennings

something like 9-10 million a year? 20 million bonus money?

last year lee evan signed a 4 year 37 million dollar deal with 18 million in guaranteed money. that made him the 3rd highest paid wr at the time

IMO

jennings > evens. with more potential

would TT even keep him if he costs that much? honestly, if we sign all our own free agents to market value then we'll be right back up against the cap and maybe back in cap hell. if we can even sign them all

right back where we started

I kind of doubt that TT will spend that to keep Jennings.

I have always felt that the top WRs are among the most overpaid positions in football. I know many will disagree with me, but I have a hard time understanding why a guy who touches the ball just 7 or 8 times a game is worth that kind of money, when if you don't have him someone else will get many of those receptions anyway. I also think you can be effective with a much less expensive, second level talent at WR. Your passing game may change, but can still be productive.

When I saw that Evens deal I was sick; Jennings is far better. If you believe TT takes care of his own, you'd believe TT will make the highest priority to sign Jennings. He can frontload a bunch into next year if he chooses.

Then again if TT drafts Crabtree............

[Patler]

When I saw that Evens deal I was sick; Jennings is far better. If you believe TT takes care of his own, you'd believe TT will make the highest priority to sign Jennings. He can frontload a bunch into next year if he chooses.

Then again if TT drafts Crabtree............

I doubt it will be Crabtree, but I wouldn't be surprised to see another first day pick at WR. If you can keep a steady stream of players like Murphy, Jennings, Jones, Nelson coming along with rookie contracts, and you keep one as the next generation of Donald Driver at a reasonable cost, you might never have to pay the outlandish cost for a top veteran.

[red]

realistically, what are we looking at to resign jennings

something like 9-10 million a year? 20 million bonus money?

last year lee evan signed a 4 year 37 million dollar deal with 18 million in guaranteed money. that made him the 3rd highest paid wr at the time

IMO

jennings > evens. with more potential

would TT even keep him if he costs that much? honestly, if we sign all our own free agents to market value then we'll be right back up against the cap and maybe back in cap hell. if we can even sign them all

right back where we started

I kind of doubt that TT will spend that to keep Jennings.

I have always felt that the top WRs are among the most overpaid positions in football. I know many will disagree with me, but I have a hard time understanding why a guy who touches the ball just 7 or 8 times a game is worth that kind of money, when if you don't have him someone else will get many of those receptions anyway. I also think you can be effective with a much less expensive, second level talent at WR. Your passing game may change, but can still be productive.

ok, so lets say TT doesn't want to pay him what he's worth

what do we o with him then?

try and trade him now? what would we be looking at in return?

or do we keep him this year and slap the tag on him next year, and then try and trade him?

has there been anything like that recently? a very good looking very young wr being traded?

[red]

I was one of the biggest Colledge detractors here. When the pick was first made, I said it was a desperation pick and a reach because of need.

After the first two years, I said he was junk. I said he gets pushed around inside and beat badly when he played outside. He was definitly not a LT and it was looking like he was junk at guard. I was still one of the biggest detractors, saying "he's not going to come around".

But, after all of that, he came back and had a great season. He's not an elite drive blocker, but he did a solid job and he's really good at everything else.He can move. He can drive block. He can pull. He's a hell of a pass protector inside. First and second impression aside, I've been saying for a few months now that Colledge is a bonafide Tausher level lineman and should be paid as such. I'd love it if Sitton becomes legit because Sitton is more of a road grader type and it would be a good match with Colledge, who is more of the athletic, versatile type.

Colledge improved a lot, but he still has a long way to go to be considered a cornerstone to build around. At least last year he started making plays at times like they hoped he would. He was still annoyingly inconsistent. He was no where near the "hell ofa pass protector" you described. He gave up more sacks than anyone but Clifton, and gave up more pressures than either Wells or Spitz.

I would not consider Colledge for any sizable contract until he proves in '09 that the good parts of '08 were not flukes, and that the bad parts of '08 will continue to diminish.

i'm with you on colledge

is there anyway you can find out howmany times he was flagged last year? it seemed to be quite a bit

[Patler]

i'm with you on colledge

is there anyway you can find out howmany times he was flagged last year? it seemed to be quite a bit

Six in total, four false starts, 2 holds.

[red]

i'm with you on colledge

is there anyway you can find out howmany times he was flagged last year? it seemed to be quite a bit

Six in total, four false starts, 2 holds.

well, i guess that isn't a lot

[vince]

I think a lot of these deals will be done during the season, because so much is unknowable until after the draft and things shake out a bit more through training camp and early season.

TT's going to have to open up the coffers to land Jennings, and the numbers that I've seen in the past seem fair. He's a legit homerun threat, and that helps make everyone on the offense a bit better.

McCarthy has said that both Giacomini and Barbre will get first look at RT, assuming Tausch doesn't return, and he also said that Clifton should be healthier than last year after getting his knees cleaned out.

Obviously, we'll see about all that, but that means Colledge is slated at this point to stay at guard, which is what his contract should be based on. His deal may need to be adjusted if/when he proves himself at tackle, but not until then. That may be 2 years yet, and may never happen.

I'd like to see Spitz retained and take over the Center spot so Wells can provide experienced backup play and incur less wear and tear on his undersized frame. Spitz' size, attitude, and now experience in this offense make him valuable to the team.

Kampman isn't exactly a speed rusher, and it's possible that a stud OLB is selected early in the draft who performs at a high level and a guy like Thompson could respond well to the scheme change. That scenario would dramatically reduce the need to give Kampman the kind of deal he might think he could get with guys like Dan Snyder out there.

I'd like to see the team get in position to let Jolly move on after this year. He's proven little beyond average run-stuffing and pass-rushing ability and has also proven to lack the desire for greatness based on his off-the-field behavior. This makes him a high-risk second-contract guy.

Re-up Pickett to a fair deal, as he can be transitioned in the next few years into more of a rotation at NT as hopefully a young player or two develops there.

We will likely draft at least one O-lineman, who hopefully shows more potential than Moll has.

I'd like to see Blackmon retained (as long as he's realistic about his value) because he's at minimum serviceable as a dimeback and explosive as a returner.

[Patler]

Vince;

I agree with all that you wrote. It looks like it will be a very busy time in season for Russ Ball. I expect little to get done with the FA list until during the season. Maybe Jennings, maybe some of the lower end guys on low level contracts. Not much with the starters.

[RashanGary]

Vince;

I agree with all that you wrote. It looks like it will be a very busy time in season for Russ Ball. I expect little to get done with the FA list until during the season. Maybe Jennings, maybe some of the lower end guys on low level contracts. Not much with the starters.

That is a big mistake IMO. You or I might not be sold on any one but Jennings, but Thompson is paid to have foresight. Waiting till a guy breaks out and becomes a proven commodity as they hit UFA is a disaster. Waiting half the season as he becomes a proven commodity is a disaster because why not wait 8 more games till the monster pay day.

As far as I'm concerned, whatever players Ted Thompson believes are long term starters need to be locked up before the season starts. I would not be surprised if 3 or 4 of the top 5 are signed before the season. Rodgers got locked up a year and half before his contract expired and that was before he even had a full season in. Thompson is perfectly comfortable locking up a player he thinks is on the rise for a big pay day. Why? Because if you wait you either lose that same player or you get crippled paying him the UFA price of a proven commodity. Using foresight is bold, but it saves huge money and we all know that having the most talent gives you the best chance at a SB and overpaying talent makes it nearly impossible to compete with the Blitzburghs that don't overpay. If you know enough to make a move early and save money, you need to do that. UFA is absolutely crippling.

If Ted does not have a couple of these guys locked up before the season and most of the ones that turn out to be good ones early in the season, then he should be fired. You don't get paid to sit with your thumb up your ass when it's time to take advantage of your leverage.

[Lurker64]

I think it would be a good idea to pay Colledge (as a Guard) now, so when he moves out to Tackle full time he'll be a comparative bargain. If you wait to pay him after he's installed at T, he's going to cost a lot more.

[RashanGary]

I think it would be a good idea to pay Colledge (as a Guard) now, so when he moves out to Tackle full time he'll be a comparative bargain. If you wait to pay him after he's installed at T, he's going to cost a lot more.

That's true. Waiting till guys become proven to everyone is the absolute worst time to pay them (esspecially when proven and UFA come at the same time). Look at NIck Collins he and his agent think they are all proven. Now it's a nightmare. You have to have foresight to avoid things like that. Look at that fat deal he gave Kampman just before he broke out and made the deal look tiny. That is what a GM is paid to do. He's paid to pay a guy before he breaks out and reap the benefits of the good contract.

We might not have enough info, but Ted should. He gets paid to project college talent. He should be a fucking ace at projecting the guys he's watched every day at practice and in every NFL game for 3 years. There is no way he should wait until the middle or end of next season. That is asking for disaster and proves he's a coward that should not be an NFL GM. It's not time to let these guys get away and it's not time to sit on your hands so you can overpay them in UFA and cripple your franchise. IT's time to lock our guys up and grow together as a team. It's time to shed that youngest team in the league title. Now is the time for Ted Thompson to win.

[Guiness]

i'm with you on colledge

is there anyway you can find out howmany times he was flagged last year? it seemed to be quite a bit

Six in total, four false starts, 2 holds.

well, i guess that isn't a lot

You sure on the two holds? I see a couple places that say he had two holds, but the Green Bay Press Gazette said he had 6 penalties, but only one hold, one ineligible man downfield (which was a bogus call). I think other places just lumped those together.

One hold on the year is pretty good - except that he was charged with allowing 6 sacks! I'd rather a couple more hold, and a couple less sacks, all things considered.

[Patler]

i'm with you on colledge

is there anyway you can find out howmany times he was flagged last year? it seemed to be quite a bit

Six in total, four false starts, 2 holds.

well, i guess that isn't a lot

You sure on the two holds? I see a couple places that say he had two holds, but the Green Bay Press Gazette said he had 6 penalties, but only one hold, one ineligible man downfield (which was a bogus call). I think other places just lumped those together.

One hold on the year is pretty good - except that he was charged with allowing 6 sacks! I'd rather a couple more hold, and a couple less sacks, all things considered.

I got my info form the Packer website. They list accepted penalties by type/person/game.

[vince]

I think it would be a good idea to pay Colledge (as a Guard) now, so when he moves out to Tackle full time he'll be a comparative bargain. If you wait to pay him after he's installed at T, he's going to cost a lot more.

That's true. Waiting till guys become proven to everyone is the absolute worst time to pay them (esspecially when proven and UFA come at the same time). Look at NIck Collins he and his agent think they are all proven. Now it's a nightmare. You have to have foresight to avoid things like that. Look at that fat deal he gave Kampman just before he broke out and made the deal look tiny. That is what a GM is paid to do. He's paid to pay a guy before he breaks out and reap the benefits of the good contract.

We might not have enough info, but Ted should. He gets paid to project college talent. He should be a fucking ace at projecting the guys he's watched every day at practice and in every NFL game for 3 years. There is no way he should wait until the middle or end of next season. That is asking for disaster and proves he's a coward that should not be an NFL GM. It's not time to let these guys get away and it's not time to sit on your hands so you can overpay them in UFA and cripple your franchise. IT's time to lock our guys up and grow together as a team. It's time to shed that youngest team in the league title. Now is the time for Ted Thompson to win.

I agree that GM's get paid to have foresight and TT knows his guys. It's as much about the draft and which first and second year guys do or don't step up as it is about the guys whose contracts are coming up. Their value to the team is as dependant on who might be ready to step in as it is on their respective skills.

For instance, Jolly is a lot more valuable to the team right now than he hopefully will be in six to nine months after a rookie or two come in and show equal or greater promise, or Malone continues to develop. Neither of those things are knowable right now, and Jolly's negotiation position won't change one iota between now and the beginning of the season.

GMs get paid to have foresight. They also get paid to be right when they are negotiating big second and third contracts for players entering and/or exiting their prime years. They need to know what their options are.

Ted is not a GM who is motivated by fear or desparation, and rushing these contracts would tend to favor the player at this point. He also isn't afraid to pay players what he thinks they're worth, regardless of how early or late in the game it is.

Barring injury, which would pose a red flag to renegotiating anyway, none of these players agents opinion of their worth is going to change between now and early in the year anyway, so nothing changes until free agency hits. Many of these guys - Jennings, Colledge and Spitz included - will be RFA's if the cap is not instituted in 2010, so that takes any leverage the threat of free agency might pose anyway.

The combination of upcoming draft, followed by negotiations with a likely 9 picks, ongoing evaluations and roster decisions as we enter training camp, and the shear number and importance of the existing player contracts all indicate that it will take some time to execute these negotiations and re-up or not.

Ted Thompson is nothing if not thorough, methodical and true to his principles and processes. None of this would be evidence that Ted has his thumb up his ass, IMO, if many of these guys are not re-upped before the start of camp.