Duke Preston Signed

[Waldo]

Denver Broncos zbs coached by Alex Gibb was the model zbs -- mobile lineman able to reach the second level.

Fixed

MM is not "fixing" the ZBS. They had to draft a base of guys to begin with, you can fill all the holes with workable guys in one draft, but to fill in with ideal guys takes longer, they are much more rare and difficult to find. Now that we have a base of competant guys, TT has moved on from looking for any old lineman that will work, to looking for the biggest, strongest lineman that will work, which are much more difficult to find, and are more of a slow trickle than a bunch you can grab at once.

Teaching zone blocking is incredibly easy, it is lineman 101 from HS on (though cut blocking isn't as common until the NCAA level). Not sure where you get this idea that only Jags could teach it, and our current coaches can't. That is totally false. People think that it is this crazy voodoo scheme that is hard to understand, which is very incorrect, it is possibly the most basic scheme out there.

[Gunakor]

I'm stuck with the ZBS... we've argued this thing to death long b/4 you got here Waldo.

This is true, we have.

But we haven't really argued whether on not we actually PLAY the ZBS, which don't believe we do. Not effectively anyways.

Cliffy is sheit at cut blocking, Tausch strugglles and our inside OL can't open gaps consistantly on run plays.

It's a half hearted ZBS at best.

It's hybrid ZBS. We mix zone blocking with power blocking. We do both.

Guys like Josh Sitton and Duke Preston, who are both athletic enough for zone blocking yet big and strong enough for power blocking, are perfect additions to the running style we run. I don't know if that will translate to better blocking on the football field, but I'm anxious to find out. I'm excited about the potential these guys bring to our run game.

[Lurker64]

It's hybrid ZBS. We mix zone blocking with power blocking. We do both.

I believe you can count on the fingers of one head the number of teams in the NFL that don't use some zone runs as well as some power runs.

[Patler]

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

As a backup, I'm not sure Wells is a "center only". He spent a half year starting for the Packers at guard. I don't like him as a guard, certainly not as a starter, but in a reserve role where a guy is expected to have some versatility, Wells could provide it.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at draft time. I agree that if he isn't starting he is likely gone, not because of a lack of versatility but because TT will go with a younger guy with more potential.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL. This is for another thread.

A previous o-line coach Larry Breightol was not retained due to zero experience in actually coaching the zbs (this was straight from Breightol). Yes, the concepts are easy to understand but actually coaching it according to Gibbs style is another matter.

Coach Campen's exposure to the zbs is from Jaggs. Looking at the current state of the Packers zbs the current coaching staff is not getting good results from the players. Execution is still inconsistent. This is not what MM envisioned.

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

[Pack-man]

I worked as a golf course for a while when I was in college

Damn! That must have been rough.

He was the rough.

[KYPack]

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

As a backup, I'm not sure Wells is a "center only". He spent a half year starting for the Packers at guard. I don't like him as a guard, certainly not as a starter, but in a reserve role where a guy is expected to have some versatility, Wells could provide it.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at draft time. I agree that if he isn't starting he is likely gone, not because of a lack of versatility but because TT will go with a younger guy with more potential.

I think they want Preston to do Moll's job. A back-up at a couple spots. Moll is OK filling in, but he's a disaster when hr starts. Both Moll and Wells gone? Could be, could be.

[Waldo]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

And I've talked to several former NCAA Div 1 lineman and professional scouts, all agree that the Packers OL is fundamentally very technique sharp, much moreso than many of the teams in the NFL. I see that too when I watch them. Their technique is not their weakness.

The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

MM just did a big coaching purge. Don't you think that if he thought his OL had technique problems and wasn't learning, that he would have fired his OL coach? Or do you think that MM can't evaluate the technical soundness of his players?

[Waldo]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

Wells was drafted by Sherman and is a former wrestler. His technique is excellent for any scheme due to his size limitations and great leverage abilities.

Are you saying Clifton, Tausher and Moll are fundamentally sound in the zbs scheme?

[Dylan McKay]

A couple of years ago we ran the zone scheme in our flag football league. We used short, fat, and agressive 40 year olds as our linemen.

It sucked, no cut blocking allowed.

[rbaloha1]

[quote="Waldo

And I've talked to several former NCAA Div 1 lineman and professional scouts, all agree that the Packers OL is fundamentally very technique sharp, much moreso than many of the teams in the NFL. I see that too when I watch them. Their technique is not their weakness.
[/quote]

Why does MM continually say the Packers o-line's pad level is too high.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

[Waldo]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

Wells was drafted by Sherman and is a former wrestler. His technique is excellent for any scheme due to his size limitations and great leverage abilities.

Are you saying Clifton, Tausher and Moll are fundamentally sound in the zbs scheme?

It isn't their technique that is the problem. Clifton and Tausher are not physically capable of executing the technique at a high level. Moll's technique is not the problem, his technique is pretty good. He's not consistent and makes a ton of mistakes, and just plain isn't a very good football player. When he doesn't false start and knows the play being run, and the defense comes at him in a basic way as expected, he does a very good job. He's very bad at handling complex defense and poor at thinking in space (he's awful at the second level, but again, technique is not the problem there).

[Waldo]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, right off the top of my head in the big 10.

Oregon, Cal, Nebraska, Tennessee, Louisville are a few others, and I don't know college ball all that well.