Justin Harrell

[Fritz]

I figured this thread title would tet a lot of interest, so I wanted to use that to ask a question.

My own opinion is that Harrell, while certainly not useful so far, is not yet a bust. I think the guy has the skills, and I also think his attitude is better than he's been given credit for. What I don't know, though, is how badly injured his back is, and how he might be feeling.

Back injuries are serious business. This could be a career-ender. But if Harrell can recover and stay healthy, I do believe he can be a good if not very good defensive lineman.

So - does anybody have any "inside" info (your cousin's girlfriend's mother's friend works at Lambeau, maybe?) or any info, period, on the state of Harrell's back?

[Bretsky]

Da Fraud II

[Fritz]

Uh, any info on Harrell's back, Bretsky?

I'm not ready to call him a fraud. In fact, if it's his back that costs him his career, I wouldn't call him a fraud or a bust. Just a pick that got hurt and never could get on the field.

Mark D'onofrio was a second round Ron Wolf pick (a Penn State linebacker) who never, ever got on the field for the Packers because he got hurt very early on.

I don't think of him as a "fraud" or a "bust." Nor do I think of Terrence Murphy that way.

Now, if Harrell's career was ended because of an injury he suffered in college that came up again, I'd say Ted made a bad bet, sure. But I don't think Harrell's back was injured until the Rock got ahold of him.

[Partial]

Da Fraud II

[Packnut]

Harrell

It's always nice to "wish" and hope" but there are zero facts to support your opinion. Harrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick. Had Thompson taken Nelson, we would have had a player who contributed immediately as I believe he was all-rookie in the AFC. Had the clown taken Nelson, we NEVER would have had to play Woodson at saftey and it would'nt be considered by many to be a position of weakness now.

But, I guess that is the difference between our perception of Teddy. I expect perfection out of the GM for the team I worship. I don't accept this hit and miss BS. I expect my GM to make the right moves as often as the Giants GM or the Patriots GM. I will NEVER accept a Jerry Angelo type clone who's wrong more than 50% of the time...........

[Fritz]

If you expect "perfection" you must've despised Ron Wolf as well.

[Waldo]

If you expect "perfection" you must've despised Ron Wolf as well.

Too true, Ron was terrible early in the draft.

[run pMc]

Aaron Rodgers could have been considered a bust until last season. It's still early, but I don't think anyone thinks he's a bust now.
Expecting perfection is unrealistic. Humans make mistakes.
Expecting TT to match NYG or NE move for move is unrealistic also -- different owners, markets, team cultures, and the teams are at different points in terms of personnel. GB has a lot more youth. It doesn't make sense to make a move unless it benefits the team, and TT believe (rightly or not) they're better off standing pat.

But all of that, frankly, is off topic. People can have their opinions of TT and their reasons. I think the point of this topic was:

So - does anybody have any "inside" info (your cousin's girlfriend's mother's friend works at Lambeau, maybe?) or any info, period, on the state of Harrell's back?

And -- like Fritz -- I'm curious to know if there is any new info.
The responses thus far aren't entirely helpful, insightful or newsworthy.

[sharpe1027]

Re: Harrell

It's always nice to "wish" and hope" but there are zero facts to support your opinion. Harrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick. Had Thompson taken Nelson, we would have had a player who contributed immediately as I believe he was all-rookie in the AFC. Had the clown taken Nelson, we NEVER would have had to play Woodson at saftey and it would'nt be considered by many to be a position of weakness now.

But, I guess that is the difference between our perception of Teddy. I expect perfection out of the GM for the team I worship. I don't accept this hit and miss BS. I expect my GM to make the right moves as often as the Giants GM or the Patriots GM. I will NEVER accept a Jerry Angelo type clone who's wrong more than 50% of the time...........

So does all this mean his back is better, or is it still bothering him? I guess you lost me.

[Zool]

Re: Harrell

It's always nice to "wish" and hope" but there are zero facts to support your opinion. Harrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick. Had Thompson taken Nelson, we would have had a player who contributed immediately as I believe he was all-rookie in the AFC. Had the clown taken Nelson, we NEVER would have had to play Woodson at saftey and it would'nt be considered by many to be a position of weakness now.

But, I guess that is the difference between our perception of Teddy. I expect perfection out of the GM for the team I worship. I don't accept this hit and miss BS. I expect my GM to make the right moves as often as the Giants GM or the Patriots GM. I will NEVER accept a Jerry Angelo type clone who's wrong more than 50% of the time...........

Or in another wildly hypothetical situation, maybe Nelson got far superior coaching than he would have gotten from Shittenheimer and that caused his early success. Maybe he would have blown out a knee in his first OTA in GB.

Maybe Harrell goes to Denver and becomes a stud and never has back issues. We get it, you don't agree with anything Thompson does. Fuck dude, just let it go. Go kick your dog or something.

[texaspackerbacker]

As for "hoping with zero fact basis", There is a certain degree of quality you can expect from a #12 first round pick--until proven otherwise. Harrell hasn't been healthy enough to prove otherwise, and in fact, he hasn't looked all that bad in the very brief instances that he has played even fairly healthy.

He looked quick for a big guy, but not very strong--as his detractors keep going on and on about. The thing is, though, even when his legs and back were OK, he was pretty much playing one-armed due to the torn bicep or whatever it was not being fully recovered. Hopefully now it is.

[Waldo]

This is the most recent thing that I've seen:

Harrell, who missed most of last season with a back injury suffered while lifting weights, isn't cleared to do everything but has not been slowed by pain. His true test won't come until he practices in pads.

"He's got a smile on his face," McCarthy said. "He's pain-free so far. You could probably point to training camp for most of these guys."

M*A*S*H Report

[cheesner]

for "hoping with zero fact basis", There is a certain degree of quality you can expect from a #12 first round pick--until proven otherwise. Harrell hasn't been healthy enough to prove otherwise, and in fact, he hasn't looked all that bad in the very brief instances that he has played even fairly healthy.

He looked quick for a big guy, but not very strong--as his detractors keep going on and on about. The thing is, though, even when his legs and back were OK, he was pretty much playing one-armed due to the tron bicep or whatever it was not being fully recovered. Hopefully now it is.

And that holds true for the 16th pick as well. (Where Harrell was taken).

The guy is very strong. Very tough. And very athletic. Some players you just have to take a risk on. Not saying TT was correct or that he was wrong, but JH was a gamble and TT understood that. If it pays off, we would have a guy who can collapse the pocket and disrupt plays in the backfield. What is the value of that to an NFL team? More valuable, IMHO, than a guy who racks up a lot of sacks, because it cuts down on the run game as well as the passing game, by tying up blockers, removing passing lanes, and preventing the QB from stepping up to pass.

JH hurt his back while working out. Its not like he strained it while lying on his couch reaching for his remote. The surgery went ok at first, but later it was discovered that bone fragments were missed and he needed to be re-operated on. Its not like he blew his knee out in college, and blew it out again on the first day of practice and it is a chronic injury. He hurt his bicep in college and still insisted on playing with it. A completely unrelated injury.

Personally, I have not given up on him. He has the heart and the dedication to come back from this and still be a force.

[KYPack]

Re: Harrell

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Hold the phone, Packnut. I know your TT angst.

Harrell was huge at Tenn. He was healthy his soph and junior seasons there.

As a junior in 2005, started all 11 games, shifting to left defensive tackle and earning second-team All-SEC honors from The Associated Press and The NFL Draft Report
Totaled 39 tackles (21 solos) with 2 1/2 sacks and 7 1/2 total stops behind the line of scrimmage
Also intercepted two passes, returning one for a touchdown, and was credited with eight pressures, one forced fumble and three deflected passes

He was MVP at the Cotton bowl the end of his soph season. His last game as a Junior, he personally shut out Kentucky, causing the broadasters to compare him again and again to Reggie White. Harrell was one of the rare Tenn DT's to wear Reggie's number. I saw him in that game and he was a pro type DT for sure.

If he ever gets healty, he will be a big thing. The back deal he's got now, could well be the end, but drafting Harrell was justified. It also might not work out, but it was not a stupid move on TT's part. Somebody would have snagged the guy with a high pick.

[Fritz]

This is the most recent thing that I've seen:

Harrell, who missed most of last season with a back injury suffered while lifting weights, isn't cleared to do everything but has not been slowed by pain. His true test won't come until he practices in pads.

"He's got a smile on his face," McCarthy said. "He's pain-free so far. You could probably point to training camp for most of these guys."

M*A*S*H Report

Thanks, Waldo.

Was it publicly stated last fall that Harrell hurt his back while lifting weights? Or has that slipped into media reports since the Rock has left the building?