Orton vs. Rodgers vs. Cutler

[Bretsky]

AROD no doubt

And that doesn't mean he is better than Cutler

I think if Orton starts a good poll would be Cutler or Orton due to offensive talent

Brett's whole career he made the whole offense go, and now that he's gone, the offense is so great that they are carrying Rodgers.

It just shows that no matter what Rodgers does, some will never give him credit for what he does.

Brett's name was never brought up in the "best ever" arguement when he retired (like Elway, Montana and now Brady have been), so he's not completely overrated. Within Packer nation though, he is.

Funny how certain people always need to make this about Brett and AROD

I never even fathomed that thought when I posted this.

Expanding on my first point, the Bears offense is terrible at the receiver position.

Orton is below average as a starter; he has talent at WR but he's simply sub par so no way he beats Rodgers numbers.

AROD is above average as a starter.
Cutler is above average as a starter.

The talent level on offense between the Bears and Packers at receiver is not even close

From #1-#5 this is the deepest group at WR in Green Bay I can remember.
Jennings is hands down the most talented WR we've had since Sterling Sharpe.

Why does this always have to be about Favre ??

[RashanGary]

This relates to Favre because for the last few years I heard how Favre made Driver, and then was making Jennings.

As soon as Favre retired, we heard how great Jennings was and how average Rodgers was for having a similar season to Favre.

I don't get it. Two years ago, Favre was the greatest Packer ever, having one of his greatest years and now Rodgers is above average having a similar year with a similar offense.

It seems like you are very biased, Bretsky and Favre is a big part of that bias. That is why this relates to Favre. His strange connection clouds vision.

[Bretsky]

This relates to Favre because for the last few years I heard how Favre made Driver, and then was making Jennings.

As soon as Favre retired, we heard how great Jennings was and how average Rodgers was for having a similar season to Favre.

I don't get it. Two years ago, Favre was the greatest Packer ever, having one of his greatest years and now Rodgers is above average having a similar year with a similar offense.

It seems like you are very biased, Bretsky and Favre is a big part of that bias. That is why this relates to Favre. His strange connection clouds vision.

so I see you are back to stirring up shit again

This thread had nothing to do with Favre yet you need to make it that way

Well good to know

Here I thought some could get over this Favre stuff; you must not be in that group

[RashanGary]

Huh, I don't consider talking about biases to be stirring shit. I no longer debate whether Rodgers is a a probowl caliber QB. I believe he is, I believe he's better than the guy we had before (95-98 withstanding).

I'm at a point where I agree to disagree and focus more on why we agree to disagree, not on changing anyones opinion. The reason we agree to disagree, as I see it, is because some love Favre so they can't accept Rodgers had a great season as soon as he left (with zero games started to boot). People who see Favre as a hero see having no drop off as effecting their belief system and will not accept it no matter the evidence.

When I hear people talk down Rodgers accomplishments, I remember how much they exaggerated the guy before and I make that connection. If that's stirring shit, well, I think that is overly sensitive and further evidence of the irrationality that comes with having a hero.

[Bretsky]

changing the focus of a thread to a topic that most are sick of..and over with, IMO is stirring up shit

So going back to my post........if you wanted to discuss the topic

What part of my post did you disagree with, if any ?

[RashanGary]

I disagree with the whole thing, but I don't know if I've argued the merits of Rodgers in a long time and don't have any urge to start now.

He had one of the all time great Packers seasons at QB. I don't see it as a fluke. I don't think anyone carried him. I don't care to argue why because for every reason there is a counter. People, in this case, can believe whatever they want to believe and there is evidence to both sides. I can't convince you of anything, and I don't really care to.

Instead of focusing on a never ending, fruitless debate, I just say, "hey, we agree to disagree. I think we agree to disagree because you love Favre and therefor cannot fully appreciate Rodgers".

[Bretsky]

I disagree with the whole thing, but I don't know if I've argued the merits of Rodgers in a long time and don't have any urge to start now.

He had one of the all time great Packers seasons at QB. I don't see it as a fluke. I don't think anyone carried him. I don't care to argue why because for every reason there is a counter. People, in this case, can believe whatever they want to believe and there is evidence to both sides. I can't convince you of anything, and I don't really care to.

Instead of focusing on a never ending, fruitless debate, I just say, "hey, we agree to disagree. I think we agree to disagree because you love Favre and therefor cannot fully appreciate Rodgers".

I'll try this again. Here was the post you referred to.

AROD no doubt

And that doesn't mean he is better than Cutler

I think if Orton starts a good poll would be Cutler or Orton due to offensive talent_________________




You disagree with tis whole thing ?

Then you shift the focus of the thread and then turn psychologist on why I feel the way I do. I'm not going to go there; it doesn't accomplish much if I give my view on why you might have a slanted bias in some of your views.

I'm actually a bit disappointed that you don't understand me better. I'm a AROD Fan and think he has a chance to be a very good QB. I also think Cutler is a very good QB. Both are IMO top 12 or so QB's.

If I have a bias that would sway my views, most would know it in here and that person is completely separate from BF or AR.

[Packnut]

QB

This relates to Favre because for the last few years I heard how Favre made Driver, and then was making Jennings.

As soon as Favre retired, we heard how great Jennings was and how average Rodgers was for having a similar season to Favre.

I don't get it. Two years ago, Favre was the greatest Packer ever, having one of his greatest years and now Rodgers is above average having a similar year with a similar offense.

It seems like you are very biased, Bretsky and Favre is a big part of that bias. That is why this relates to Favre. His strange connection clouds vision.

Similiar season? 13-3 vs 6-10 I take it math is not your strong suit now is it? When are you people gonna learn? It's about WINS PERIOD! NOTHING else matters.

To compare the season Favre had with what Rodgers did is sheer STUPIDITY!

I never believed in the "alien among us" theory but you have to be outta this world cause some of the shit you spout is off the wall!

[Gunakor]

Re: QB

This relates to Favre because for the last few years I heard how Favre made Driver, and then was making Jennings.

As soon as Favre retired, we heard how great Jennings was and how average Rodgers was for having a similar season to Favre.

I don't get it. Two years ago, Favre was the greatest Packer ever, having one of his greatest years and now Rodgers is above average having a similar year with a similar offense.

It seems like you are very biased, Bretsky and Favre is a big part of that bias. That is why this relates to Favre. His strange connection clouds vision.

Similiar season? 13-3 vs 6-10 I take it math is not your strong suit now is it? When are you people gonna learn? It's about WINS PERIOD! NOTHING else matters.

To compare the season Favre had with what Rodgers did is sheer STUPIDITY!

I never believed in the "alien among us" theory but you have to be outta this world cause some of the shit you spout is off the wall!

Stop it Packnut. You are making the mistake many on here make, that being that you are comparing team success between Favre and Rodgers when the argument JH tried to make was specifically comparing Rodgers and Favre (not Rodgers' team to Favre's team). Speaking to individual success alone, and not concerning ourselves with the litany of injuries on the defensive side of the ball for Aaron's season or the serious lack of a pass rush during Aaron's season, Brett's and Aaron's seasons looked very similar.

The QB alone is not solely responsible for wins. Remember that. 53 players, a coaching staff, a training staff, a scouting department... All of these groups have an affect on wins and losses. Not just the quarterback.

[BZnDallas]

Thats kind of the point about Rodgers... he not only has to do more, he has to do it all. Can't count on the defense and ST's at all. Cutler won't be asked to win games in the same way.

The GBP put everything on their QB... even if Rodgers is better than Cutler, he's going to have to be. Green Bay isn't going to beat anybody with defense, except maybe Detroit.

Luckily, or unluckily , everyone in the division is so flawed that none of them really has a legit shot at the SB... if Chicago can rebuild their D in the next couple of years, I'd give them a better shot moving forward than GB, simply b/c I have zero faith that the Packers can build a championship calibur defense.

all i'm trying to say is that Rodgers has shown he can lead a team to a comeback win/tie in the 4th quarter... he hasn't gotten any credit for doing it 5 times last year... all we hear about is how AR doesn't have what it takes to lead this team... i disagree... he lead them alot last year and the D gave it up alot last year aswell... can we put to rest the part about AR in the 4th quarter now?... thats all i'm askin...

[RashanGary]

2007 Packers

#9 combined defense and ST's


2008 Packers

#23 combined defense and ST's

Missed two game winning FG's.



I think the blaming the QB thing can pretty much go out the window, but nothing will stop the worshipers/haters. Time will prove Rodgers right and I'll be here to continue the conversation. So keep talkin. You're digging a hole where your opinions will become less and less valid with every shovel, or post in the case of many here.

[Joemailman]

Orton wont be a starter, Simms will be so he's out.

I'd thought about that, but Simms hasn't played football for 2 years. I think Orton will be the starter initially. Whether he can keep the job is another matter.

[Bretsky]

I think it's sad that you deem yourself to be fighting the good fight when nearly everybody likes AROD and cheers for him. Has anybody in this thread implied he's a bad quarterback ?

Calling others worthipers/haters accomplishes nothing but dividing people.

Isn't it enough to have those who like TT versus those who dislike TTT ?

[red]

i don't think orton should even be anywhere near the poll

cutler and rodgers are legit starters, and both look like they'll have very good careers

orton is just something the bears had that was better then the rest of the shit they had. he's a career backup that had to start do to shear stupidity

[RashanGary]

Bretsky, the same people who fought tooth and nail in Favre's corner during last years fiasco are the same people who are constantly saying Rodgers lost the games last year and the same people saying his supporting cast are what made him. If you can't connect those two dots, we're living in a different world.

It's completely unfair to Rodgers and none of you used to say that before Rodgers was QB. It was always, "the QB is making this team" then it went to, "The QB is made by the offense" as soon as Rodgers took over. BS.

The great thing is, time gets to prove people right and wrong and when time comes, all you hear is whining because one group is always wrong and then cries about it.