Orton vs. Rodgers vs. Cutler

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, the same people who fought tooth and nail in Favre's corner during last years fiasco are the same people who are constantly saying Rodgers lost the games last year and the same people saying his supporting cast are what made him. If you can't connect those two dots, we're living in a different world.

It's completely unfair to Rodgers and none of you used to say that before Rodgers was QB. It was always, "the QB is making this team" then it went to, "The QB is made by the offense" as soon as Rodgers took over. BS.

I can think of about two people who fit the profile you are describing...not including pacopete...who I don't think is around anymore.

I guess that's why I just think you are stirring the pot

[RashanGary]

Nope. I don't like when the same people who said, "the QB makes the offense" now discredit Rodgers for having a big time year and seem to be ready to discount him if he has another and another.

Rodgers was near the top of the league in yards in the air. Let's remember that. He's not just tossing it short and letting his guys run like we're used to. He gets all the credit for his big year. He'd be good in the Bears offense or any offense because he throws a catchable, accurate ball and knows where to go with the ball. He'd probably be perfect for the Bears because he's a strong leader, very ball secure and would mesh perfectly into a championship D/ST/Run game. He plays the game like a champ, not like a glory hound, chump.

[Bretsky]

Nope. I don't like when the same people who said, "the QB makes the offense" now discredit Rodgers for having a big time year and seem to be ready to discount him if he has another and another.

Rodgers was near the top of the league in yards in the air. Let's remember that. He's not just tossing it short and letting his guys run like we're used to. He'd be good in the Bears offense or any offense because he throws a catchable, accurate ball and knows where to go with the ball. He'd probably be perfect for the Bears because he's a strong leader, very ball secure and would mesh perfectly into a championship D/ST/Run game. He plays the game like a champ, not like a glory hound, chump.

clearly your going to be a drama dude about this so I'll let it go and not encourage you to spat your generic jargon any more.

I read through the thread once again and you were the one who shifted the topic into this crap again that the forum read about for much of last year If I knew were Pacopete was I'd encourage you to continue the discussion with him.

Once again feel free to go back and disagree with anything specifically that I wrote in this thread.

[pack4to84]

Not only did Rodgers have a great season for a QB he has similar stats to the MVP of the league. If it wasn't for the D letting us all down Rodgers would have been MVP.

[Partial]

Not only did Rodgers have a great season for a QB he has similar stats to the MVP of the league. If it wasn't for the D letting us all down Rodgers would have been MVP.

Is this a joke?? MVP? More like PYT.

[esoxx]

Nope. I don't like when the same people who said, "the QB makes the offense" now discredit Rodgers for having a big time year and seem to be ready to discount him if he has another and another.

Rodgers was near the top of the league in yards in the air. Let's remember that. He's not just tossing it short and letting his guys run like we're used to. He gets all the credit for his big year. He'd be good in the Bears offense or any offense because he throws a catchable, accurate ball and knows where to go with the ball. He'd probably be perfect for the Bears because he's a strong leader, very ball secure and would mesh perfectly into a championship D/ST/Run game. He plays the game like a champ, not like a glory hound, chump.

6-10 as a first year starter. Let's hope for better things as the maturation prcocess occurs.

If you want to slam Favre, you're just a pot stirrer and your motives are clear. Hooray for you.

[Lurker64]

Last year the Packers were in a lot of games that they lost where if somebody would have made a play, they would have won. Rodgers didn't make that play, neither did anybody else.

The year before that, the Packers were in a lot of games where they won because somebody made a play. Favre didn't make all those plays, neither did anybody else.

QBs are like any other head honcho, they get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. I don't think anything more needs to be said on this topic, possibly ever.

[pack4to84]

Not only did Rodgers have a great season for a QB he has similar stats to the MVP of the league. If it wasn't for the D letting us all down Rodgers would have been MVP.

Is this a joke?? MVP? More like PYT.

Rodgers stats
341/536 63.6% 4,038 yds 28 TD 13 INT 93.6 rate
MVP
P.Manning
371/555 66.8% 4002 yds 27 TD 12 INT 95.0 rate

If the D and Crosby didn't let us down the Packers would have been 11-5. That would have been good enough to win our division something Payton didn't do.

[Partial]

Not only did Rodgers have a great season for a QB he has similar stats to the MVP of the league. If it wasn't for the D letting us all down Rodgers would have been MVP.

Is this a joke?? MVP? More like PYT.

Rodgers stats
341/536 63.6% 4,038 yds 28 TD 13 INT 93.6 rate
MVP
P.Manning
371/555 66.8% 4002 yds 27 TD 12 INT 95.0 rate

If the D and Crosby didn't let us down the Packers would have been 11-5. That would have been good enough to win our division something Payton didn't do.

WHAT? The D and Crosby lost us 5 games?!? This must be a joke.

[pbmax]

Instead of insults and wearing out your question marks, why don't folks make a factual case that Favre had the superior season as the Packers QB to Rodgers when comparing 2007 to 2008?

Unlike some, I am unwilling to simply look at the wins and losses, remember the QB was the most visible change and conclude the QB must be the sole cause of failure. I can get this type of ESPN analysis from Mike and Mike. If I am going to spend time on this topic, why not look below the superficial?

Because the answer lies in the performance of the whole team. Part of it was Rodgers, but a small fraction. He has room to improve, but the areas are quite specific. Other members of the team had far worse seasons than Rodgers, and that is the reason we are drafting ninth, not Rodgers.

The lengths folks are going to ignore the obvious is remarkable. Everyone wants to note that most starters returned from 2007 except for Favre. And therefore, Rodgers must be the difference; the reason for 7 fewer wins. But if you compare their seasons, Rodgers and Favre are very close. There are certain areas where one shines above the other, but overall very even.

And then there are areas of the football team that performed pathetically. We never seem to hear about these folks. The only observation made about the rest of the team was the number of returning starters. No one asks how they performed. Just because you returned doesn't mean you didn't stink. Not everyone is McCarthur.

[cpk1994]

Not only did Rodgers have a great season for a QB he has similar stats to the MVP of the league. If it wasn't for the D letting us all down Rodgers would have been MVP.

Is this a joke?? MVP? More like PYT.

Rodgers stats
341/536 63.6% 4,038 yds 28 TD 13 INT 93.6 rate
MVP
P.Manning
371/555 66.8% 4002 yds 27 TD 12 INT 95.0 rate

If the D and Crosby didn't let us down the Packers would have been 11-5. That would have been good enough to win our division something Payton didn't do.

WHAT? The D and Crosby lost us 5 games?!? This must be a joke.

Oh thats right, Partial says it was all Rodger's fault. God you are an idiot.

[Lurker64]

WHAT? The D and Crosby lost us 5 games?!? This must be a joke.

Well, when you think about it, the defense and special teams are 2/3 of a football team. Aaron Rodgers is one of 11 starters on the offense, which is 1/3 of the football team. Statistically speaking, it's a lot more probable that any particular loss can be pinned on the 2/3 than on the 1/11th of 1/3.

[Partial]

Who said anyhting about 1/11th?

[3irty1]

WHAT? The D and Crosby lost us 5 games?!? This must be a joke.

Well, when you think about it, the defense and special teams are 2/3 of a football team. Aaron Rodgers is one of 11 starters on the offense, which is 1/3 of the football team. Statistically speaking, it's a lot more probable that any particular loss can be pinned on the 2/3 than on the 1/11th of 1/3.

That's obviously an over simplification. Rodgers is 1/11 of the offensive personnel on the field but he's playing the most important position.

Saying the Defense and Crosby lost games for us is just shifting blame around. The Defense and Crosby had the opportunity to win us 5 more games but its not like they single-handedly lost anything. But point taken, Rodgers had a comparable year statistically to the league MVP. In an average season though Peytons MVP numbers would be weak.

[Partial]

There is so much more to it than numbers. Let's not forget that we CRUSHED the Manning led team early in the season. Do you think we would have been within 30 points of them week 12-13? Hell no.