NFL Networks Draft Analysis the Pack

[Waldo]

Oher's issues are odd.

It isn't that he's not a good LT, that's not it at all.

He's physically capable of being Joe Thomas. He's physically capable of being better than Monroe, Andre, and Jason. But he wasn't. He still kicks the butt of all the other T's hands down, but he's only in Monroe's, Andre, and Jason's league. That is people's problem with him. He's not as good as he's supposed to be with his physical tools. He should be hands down the best LT in this class on film. The fact that he's not earns him the "inconsistent and lacks heart" tag, death to the stock of LT's. He's nearly as quick and agile on his feet as Jason (moreso than Monroe and Andre), but can generate much more explosive power in his legs than Jason, even more than Eugene, so should be a superior run blocker than both.

There is a big question as to whether Andre is actually even a LT at the pro level. Joe Thomas gave up fewer sacks in his college career (1) than Andre gave up in a half playing E. Brown (2). Andre needs help with speed. He will always struggle with the Dwight Freeneys and will need help with them. He is a Mn/Pit LT, teams that move the ball by running you over. He is not and never will be a shutdown LT that allows zero pressure from the edge. That isn't his game. He's a good enough pass blocker for some/most (depends on how well he plays at the pro level and his weight), but a dominant run blocker.

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

[LL2]

Oher's issues are odd.

It isn't that he's not a good LT, that's not it at all.

He's physically capable of being Joe Thomas. He's physically capable of being better than Monroe, Andre, and Jason. But he wasn't. He still kicks the butt of all the other T's hands down, but he's only in Monroe's, Andre, and Jason's league. That is people's problem with him. He's not as good as he's supposed to be with his physical tools. He should be hands down the best LT in this class on film. The fact that he's not earns him the "inconsistent and lacks heart" tag, death to the stock of LT's. He's nearly as quick and agile on his feet as Jason (moreso than Monroe and Andre), but can generate much more explosive power in his legs than Jason, even more than Eugene, so should be a superior run blocker than both.

There is a big question as to whether Andre is actually even a LT at the pro level. Joe Thomas gave up fewer sacks in his college career (1) than Andre gave up in a half playing E. Brown (2). Andre needs help with speed. He will always struggle with the Dwight Freeneys and will need help with them. He is a Mn/Pit LT, teams that move the ball by running you over. He is not and never will be a shutdown LT that allows zero pressure from the edge. That isn't his game. He's a good enough pass blocker for some/most (depends on how well he plays at the pro level and his weight), but a dominant run blocker.

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Dude...you should be writing for a sport paper...you write some pretty good stuff.

[rbaloha1]

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Colledge was an outstanding lt at Boise State due to his feet and athleticism.

Colledge's problems have nothing to do with arm length -- its upper body strength. At Boise State they emphasis lower body strength over upper body strength. Colledege was over powered as a result of the lack of upper body strength not shorter arms.

Colledege has improved his upper body strength and the results are noticeable. IMO still better at left tackle.

[Partial]

I'm not going to get into it, but how the F does one get a big lower body without a big strong upper body? Strong people have strong posterior chains, and as a result they have strong upper bodies as well.

It's very tough to developer a strong lower body without having a very strong upper body as well. Think of the sheer physics of how thats possible.

[red]

i had a very strong lower body without any upper body strength in high school

[rbaloha1]

Are you for real?

You don't think it's telling that Andre Smith would be the least athletic offensive lineman Thompson has ever drafted, and the least athletic member of our offensive line, besides Clifton?

Oher is at least as athletic as a bunch of the other guys we've got, and by all accounts it looks like Thompson only drafts offensive lineman that are above certain standards of athletic ability, which Oher apparently meets.

TT drafts both athletic lineman (ie, Colledge, Barbre and Moll) and less athletic lineman (Spitz, Sitton).

Drills are one measure of athleticism but not the holy grail. IMO AS is athletic enough to play whatever position.

The guy played in the SEC and is accustomed to speed rusher. If available hope TT pulls the trigger (assuming crabtree and raji are gone). Unsure how AS compares with Oher.

[wist43]

I wouldn't mind Oher... questions as to whether he can handle the mental side of the game. Heard he had a learning disability.

As for Smith, I don't think TT would rate him as highly as some of the other guys... the Packers seem to have become obsessed with a player having the "versatility" to play 16 different positions.

MM at the combine going on about this guy can play this and that, and the other guy can play that and this... in the end, they end up with "versatile" guys that may cover multiple spots, but don't really excel at any of them.

Hell, he even said he could see Bishop as an rush OLB, gimme a break.

[wist43]

Can we just draft a G, and stick him at G??? So what if he can't play cornerback!!!!

[Joemailman]

I wouldn't mind Oher... questions as to whether he can handle the mental side of the game. Heard he had a learning disability.

Not a learning disability that I know of. A disastrous childhood (Father murdered, mother addicted to drugs) and forced to fend for himself at an early age. Was eventually adopted by a family that straightened his life out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FhlbsJUJ9Q

[Lurker64]

TT drafts both athletic lineman (ie, Colledge, Barbre and Moll) and less athletic lineman (Spitz, Sitton).

However, Spitz and Sitton are both better athletes than Andre Smith.
(Spitz: SS: 4.56 3-Cone: 7.72) (Sitton: SS: 4.50 3-Cone: 7.55) (A. Smith: SS: 4.93 3-Cone: 7.86).

I'm not saying that Andre Smith is a bad player, or an unproductive player, but we're already running a scheme where lack of athleticism on the part of the LT hurts the running game, and Smith's pass blocking is not top 10 caliber. Currently we have it that the least athletic offensive lineman is the left tackle, but he's a 9 year Veteran whose pass blocking is outstanding. You don't want to "fix" that situation by replacing him with a rookie or 1-year player whose pass blocking is suspect.

[Partial]

Chad Clifton is unathletic? News to me.

[Joemailman]

Clifton has never been a particularly good run blocker. As the Packers have moved to zone blocking, and he has gotten older, he has become a liability. So, in terms of run blocking, he is less athletic than would be preferable.

[Lurker64]

Chad Clifton is unathletic? News to me.

Okay, well, he's more athletic than Andre Smith but over the past year his knees and other minor nagging injuries have held him back a lot. A lot of running plays that would have otherwise been successful over the past couple years ended up failing, since Clifton failed to get the cut block on the backside pressure.

[Partial]

I think he's a straight up jock. He's never been a good run blocker, never will be. He's a dominating pass blocker.

[Waldo]

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Colledge was an outstanding lt at Boise State due to his feet and athleticism.

Colledge's problems have nothing to do with arm length -- its upper body strength. At Boise State they emphasis lower body strength over upper body strength. Colledege was over powered as a result of the lack of upper body strength not shorter arms.

Colledege has improved his upper body strength and the results are noticeable. IMO still better at left tackle.

I agree, I'm skeptical about drafting any of these LT, we've already got a pretty good on on the roster. He still has short arms for a LT. Not too short, 33" is generally considered the acceptable threshold, and that's what he has. But that means by pure physics, the real long armed rushers that are good with their hands will most likely give him trouble. There aren't a lot in the NFL, so it isn't too big of a concern though.