AARON KAMPMAN- A SOLID CHARACTER...CONTRACT GAMBLE

[Merlin]

I think the problem with Harris is that he sees himself as a better corner then Woodsen. When was the last time Woodsen produced? He has been injured the past two seasons and there is no guarantee he will ever be the pro-bowler he once was (for what one season?). Harris on the other hand has given us 3 good seasons of good play on a defense that has been very questionable. When you have WR's from other teams saying that you are one of the best CB's in the league, that says something. Al Harris is a class act though. He may look like a monkey with those dreads but the guy is a team player and I hope he retires a Packer. I think he saw us overpay a loud mouth "me" type of guy like Woodsen and said "screw that".

Personal Comparison:

I worked for a company where I was in charge of a department of 4-5 developers. When one of them left the company it was my job to hire another one. Since I was hired, the tech market saw a boom in salaries that was not directly reflected in my pay check, I was underpaid about $20K per year but I liked the company so I stayed. I hired a guy who got an offer $15K a year more then I was making. He didn't have more experience, he didn't know the business and he hadn't developed in 2 years. Did I get a raise? Nope. Was I angry? A little, but I held out that my company would make good on it.

I parted ways with that company when it soon became obvious to me that they had no idea what "loyalty" meant. I won't get into the events, but let's just say that unlike Harris, I was not longer appreciated and THAT is the reason I don't work there anymore.

Harris will do the same when he goes unappreciated, mark my words.

[Noodle]

Merlin and Bretsky make great points. To us schmucks, 5 mil is huge, the lottery, a dream come true.

But it ain't like that for these guys. Don't talk to me about deserve it -- they are in the entertainment business. Does Britany Spears "deserve" all the cash she makes? Not in the sense of contributing anything meaningful. But she generates the cash, so in the most basic sense she does deserve it.

Same way with the players. They generate a ton of cash, and the salary cap has gone up to reflect that. B is right, 5 mil is not megacash for a CB under the new cap, especially one who plays every game and has, for the last couple of years, been lined up against the other teams' No. 1.

And Merlin is right. Circumstances change, and when there's more money around, the guys who signed when there was less understandably want some of that.

I'm glad Kampy got his deal. I also want Harris to get some incentive bonuses added to his contract. Or, like Merlin says, he'll walk. And other players will take notice.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, I believe Woodson has four Pro Bowls to zero for Harris. He made it his first four years in the league. He's missed half the season two of the last four years. Then again, the Pro Bowl is all about name recognition.

[Partial]

Merlin and Bretsky make great points. To us schmucks, 5 mil is huge, the lottery, a dream come true.

But it ain't like that for these guys. Don't talk to me about deserve it -- they are in the entertainment business. Does Britany Spears "deserve" all the cash she makes? Not in the sense of contributing anything meaningful. But she generates the cash, so in the most basic sense she does deserve it.

Same way with the players. They generate a ton of cash, and the salary cap has gone up to reflect that. B is right, 5 mil is not megacash for a CB under the new cap, especially one who plays every game and has, for the last couple of years, been lined up against the other teams' No. 1.

And Merlin is right. Circumstances change, and when there's more money around, the guys who signed when there was less understandably want some of that.

I'm glad Kampy got his deal. I also want Harris to get some incentive bonuses added to his contract. Or, like Merlin says, he'll walk. And other players will take notice.

see, he's not worth it though. Lets keep this in prespective. He is a solid number 2 corner. He should be getting what a good #2 corner gets. How much is that you ask? Exactly what Harris is being paid. He wants more money since he was a 6th round pick and never got a phatty paycheck to begin with. That's what it comes down to.

[Merlin]

Merlin and Bretsky make great points. To us schmucks, 5 mil is huge, the lottery, a dream come true.

But it ain't like that for these guys. Don't talk to me about deserve it -- they are in the entertainment business. Does Britany Spears "deserve" all the cash she makes? Not in the sense of contributing anything meaningful. But she generates the cash, so in the most basic sense she does deserve it.

Same way with the players. They generate a ton of cash, and the salary cap has gone up to reflect that. B is right, 5 mil is not megacash for a CB under the new cap, especially one who plays every game and has, for the last couple of years, been lined up against the other teams' No. 1.

And Merlin is right. Circumstances change, and when there's more money around, the guys who signed when there was less understandably want some of that.

I'm glad Kampy got his deal. I also want Harris to get some incentive bonuses added to his contract. Or, like Merlin says, he'll walk. And other players will take notice.

see, he's not worth it though. Lets keep this in prespective. He is a solid number 2 corner. He should be getting what a good #2 corner gets. How much is that you ask? Exactly what Harris is being paid. He wants more money since he was a 6th round pick and never got a phatty paycheck to begin with. That's what it comes down to.

I don't blame Harris though. Woodsen IMO should have at the very least shown up for ome of the OTA's. Personal commitment or not, I have 10 Million reasons he needed to be there, not including the obvious one of showing the team you give a shit...

Woodsen is a brand name player, he has a big name but hasn't given anyone anything in two years. Hopefully his play is better then his obvious disrespect for the Packers. I think this will probably be his only season for GB if he doesn't change his attitude...

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Merlin just gave a good example of why Woodson doesn't deserve 10 mil this year, rather than why Harris should get more money. Harris has out played woodson the last two years and i would be piss off if i was Al to. This does not mean however that Al deservers a new deal, but rather that the team made a mistake in giving someone not that deserving a ridiculously big contract.

Thats why earlier i stated that great players should get around 5 mil a year, so that good players like Al Harris don't get to jealous from a 10 mil contract and holdout. Thats why i believe that we kind of over payed for kampman. If these so called great players like woodson only play for 10 mil dollar contracts them IMO they should not be signed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kampman might take another step up
By Pete Dougherty

For the last three Green Bay Packers training camps, starting defensive end Aaron Kampman has taken most of his daily one-on-one pass-rushing snaps against Mark Tauscher.

Tauscher, one of the better if under publicized right tackles in the NFL, was superior in the majority of those battles. But after 1½ weeks of camp this year, Kampman is winning more often than in the past.

Could it be Kampman, a prototypical overachiever coming off his best NFL season and set to turn 27 in November, still is an ascending player? Might he continue his annual improvement for several more years despite the conventional wisdom that he's a try-hard and character player with ordinary talent at best?

"I think he's going to be a lot better this year," Tauscher said Wednesday. "People have him as a guy that's maxed out talent wise. I don't see it. I see him as a guy that as he gets older is probably going to get better. If you think of guys like (former NFL defensive end) Trace Armstrong, his ninth, 10th, 11th years were his big sack years. You get a knack for how to beat people, and that's something (Kampman) is going to have a lot of success doing."

Tauscher, who last year at this time correctly predicted Kampman would have something of a breakout year in 2005, disputed that Kampman is beating him more this camp in one-on-ones. Kampman, on the other hand, agreed he's having more success.

Regardless, Tauscher isn't the only member of the organization predicting Kampman can be a noticeably better player than last year, when he had the second-most tackles by a defensive lineman (105) in team history and a career-high 6½ sacks. General Manager Ted Thompson decided that he couldn't allow Kampman to hit the free-agent market after that kind of performance and paid him $11 million in bonuses as part of a four-year, $21 million contract.

That kind of up-front money usually is reserved for stud pass rushers, which Kampman isn't. He's more complete than most defensive ends, and his ability to play the run well plus get a handful of sacks would have made him a coveted player in a free-agent market that was soft at that position last offseason. But is he really worth that kind of money?

"I am what I am," Kampman said. "I've had things written about me good and bad. I answer those questions — what do I say? I play extremely hard and I play with fundamentals. In my mind I believe I do have talent. I'm a football player, that's my profession. I try to do it the best I can. That's it."

Carl Hairston, the Packers' new defensive ends coach who also played 15 years at that position in the NFL, knew little about Kampman while coaching the Kansas City Chiefs' defensive line the past five years. After coach Mike McCarthy hired him in January, Hairston watched all of last year's videotape and saw Kampman as a strong, intelligent, high-effort technician. On the practice field, he's found Kampman to be a little bigger than anticipated — Kampman is listed at 278 pounds — and a decent pass rusher.

Hairston even raised the possibility Kampman could get double-digit sacks this season, which would be a significant jump from the 6½ he had last year.

Though Kampman isn't a rush specialist, he'll get his sack chances because the Packers don't have a speed rusher to pair opposite Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila on passing downs. That means Kampman probably will be the second outside rusher in the nickel and dime defenses, as he was last year, when he played more than 90 percent of the team's defensive snaps. Second-year pro Mike Montgomery hasn't done enough in camp yet to challenge for that job.

"Aaron is well worth what he was paid," Hairston said, "and I think you'll probably see more out of him this year, because he's getting better every year. This is only his (fifth) year. He's got a long career to go."

Perhaps the biggest risk teams have to weigh when paying out a contract such as Kampman's is whether the money will change the player.

Kampman, like many NFL millionaires, hit the mother lode because he had his best season in the last year of his contract. It's not unusual for those players never to play to that level again because they lose their hunger and drive after hitting the free-agent jackpot. The Packers, for instance, have experienced such costly mistakes with receiver Antonio Freeman and defensive tackle Cletidus Hunt.

Thompson risked overpaying Kampman in part because he had no qualms in that regard.

After his big pay day, Kampman and his wife bought a new house with a bigger backyard and a guest room, but both still drive the same vehicles they had last year. Far more importantly, Kampman's attendance in the offseason training program and effort in training camp suggest he's still highly motivated.

"He's definitely got a different edge to him than he's had," Tauscher said. "With the contract that he got, you can see him taking on more responsibility and leadership. He's trying to really prove he's worth the money he's paid, and he's really having a good camp."

[woodbuck27]

Actually, I believe Woodson has four Pro Bowls to zero for Harris. He made it his first four years in the league. He's missed half the season two of the last four years. Then again, the Pro Bowl is all about name recognition.

Time to jump in here.

I believe that Al Harris based on what T2 paid Charles Woodson feels he's now underpaid and I see clearly his arguement for that. Woodson did this and he did that - based on what?

The past. Those four Pro Bowls will mean diddley squat when it comes right down to performing this season.

Al Harris has merely expressed his displeasure with a Contract that underpays him, compared to a CB that may certainly not give us the service that Al Harris has. Al Harris hasn't gone to the press and called out T2 in any manner embarassing to Ted Thompson or the Team. He has "in fact" shown alot of what he is. Class.

I hope that Al Harris gets more. Only based on what he does for us today.

I feel that Charles Woodson got too much, based on what he did that was very good in the past. I am on record as saying this:

I really believe that Charles Woodson will not return on the investment Ted Thompson gave him. We will be much more pleased with the play of Aaron Kampman over his next 2 X $5 Milllion seasons than what Charles Woodson will give us.

Ted Thompson as B. said (or alluded to) wasn't prepared for this Off Season's Free Agency signing period to begin. What GM would not be fast out of the blocks and aggressive in an approach to land real talent for his team, a TEAM that had/still has, the holes we do?

Ted Thompson in my observation, is on a learning curve as a top flight GM. He certainly wasn't prepared to take advantage of what resources we saw before the FA signing period began.

Ted Thompson had alot of money that needed to be better spent than bringing in a CB that has demonstrated a poor attitude as a team player (the opinion of Raider fans) and a history of concern regarding injury.

Charles Woodson naturally translates to Al Harris being anoid. I'm not buying the scapegoat of it being about Aaron Kampman (white player) as Kampman was pursued by Minny last off season and he was an unristricted Free Agent this, and I'm so glad T2 wrapped him.

Aaron Kampman works his tail off. Al Harris works his tail off.

What has Charles Woodson showed us Packer fans to date after signing, compared to these Packer people? It's pretty clear.

Noone can live on the laurels of the past nor. . . should they be judged for such one way or another.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH in 2006 !!

[RashanGary]

I don't like the Woodson signing either. He reminds me a little of Joe Johnson. We'll see though.

[Terry]

I think Harris has a legitimate claim. His contract was done at a time when salary caps were much lower. He should be making more. Whoever it was who said that the Packers will suffer for it if they don't do something about Harris is right.

As for Thompson, I think you're made some good points, woodbuck. I was particularly struck by your comment, "Ted Thompson in my observation, is on a learning curve as a top flight GM. He certainly wasn't prepared to take advantage of what resources we saw before the FA signing period began." I think you're dead right about Thompson being in a learning curve. I would only add that things are promising in regard to Thompson - he seems pretty bright and he certainly has shown he has an eye for talent. After all the complaints and worry about him, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he developed into a top notch GM for GB.

[woodbuck27]

I think Harris has a legitimate claim. His contract was done at a time when salary caps were much lower. He should be making more. Whoever it was who said that the Packers will suffer for it if they don't do something about Harris is right.

As for Thompson, I think you're made some good points, woodbuck. I was particularly struck by your comment, "Ted Thompson in my observation, is on a learning curve as a top flight GM. He certainly wasn't prepared to take advantage of what resources we saw before the FA signing period began." I think you're dead right about Thompson being in a learning curve. I would only add that things are promising in regard to Thompson - he seems pretty bright and he certainly has shown he has an eye for talent. After all the complaints and worry about him, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he developed into a top notch GM for GB.

We need just that Terry. Ted Thompson certainly is a decent fella and has the smarts. He's got to step up a little faster - take risks.

HOLD THE FAITH - PACKERS in 2006 and BEYOND !!

[BallHawk]

I think one of the main reasons we payed so much is that we have so little depth at DE.

[woodbuck27]

I think one of the main reasons we payed so much is that we have so little depth at DE.

I'm just so glad we kept Aaron Kampman as noone's gives more to OUR team. Him and Barnett and Al Harris on "D".

Favre and DD, Hendo,Bubba and Ahman Green (Samkon Gado) on "O". All solid character players.

These MEN are OUR Leaders as I see it.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD ONTO FAITH in 2006 !!

[Scott Campbell]

Woodson's contract was a result of an overpriced free agent market due to the cap rising so significantly in one year. Teams that were completely tapped out all of a sudden found themselves with a huge free agent budget when the CBA was completed. Ted wouldn't overpay like everyone early on, and when the talent pool began to dry up he used Woodson to preserve his available cap space for future years.

That contract is wildly front-loaded. That contract used up much of this years available cap space without hindering our ability to go shopping in future years. And after the shopping binge this year, there won't be as many dollars chasing so few players resulting in a much more team friendly free agent market next year.

It would have been interesting to see who we could have landed had the new CBA not been completed. Then there would have only been a handful of teams bidding for the available players. Our roster might look significantly different had that been the case.

I believe Ted exercised a tremendous amount of prudent fiscal restraint in this overpriced market, and is now paying the price for it in the naive court of public opinion.

[woodbuck27]

Woodson's contract was a result of an overpriced free agent market due to the cap rising so significantly in one year. Teams that were completely tapped out all of a sudden found themselves with a huge free agent budget when the CBA was completed. Ted wouldn't overpay like everyone early on, and when the talent pool began to dry up he used Woodson to preserve his available cap space for future years.

That contract is wildly front-loaded. That contract used up much of this years available cap space without hindering our ability to go shopping in future years. And after the shopping binge this year, there won't be as many dollars chasing so few players resulting in a much more team friendly free agent market next year.

It would have been interesting to see who we could have landed had the new CBA not been completed. Then there would have only been a handful of teams bidding for the available players. Our roster might look significantly different had that been the case.

I believe Ted exercised a tremendous amount of prudent fiscal restraint in this overpriced market, and is now paying the price for it in the naive court of public opinion.

No Scott. Your point is well made on the basis of it's focus.

Good post.