Joe Flacco, franchise QB?

[KYPack]

I'm not sold on Flacco really. He made a few nice plays but overall he's kinda underwhelming.

Agreed. Ryan looked leaps and bounds better imo.

Flacco is a damned good rookie QB.

Ryan might be the best rookie QB of all time.

That last minute pass he made to sink the Bears was a big time NFL throw. He's a top flight QB, of any age.

I'd beg to differ...

"Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft by the Indianapolis Colts.[2] In his rookie season, he passed for 3,739 yards with 26 touchdowns, set five different NFL rookie records, including most touchdown passes in a season, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie First Team."

I still think Ryan was better than Peyton was as a rookie. Ryan is the most "finished product" rookie QB I've seen. Ryan turned his team around and brought 'em from the pits to being a contender. Like Harve states, Peyton won 3 as his team floundered. Ryan was a winner right from the jump.

Whether he'll hit the heights PM has hit, who knows? But I'll take Ryan's first season as the best rookie campaign that I've seen.

[Partial]

Can't say I've seen enough about this guy to think he's a stud, but when I did watch, I wasn't super impressed. I'm sure you have a much more intimate knowledge of him as you've seen him significantly more.

[Guiness]

I guess time will tell. Some valid point, like the fact that he brought consistency to the QB position. Some intagibles mentioned, like poise, and leadership. Those are important things, I agree, but I don't think you anoint a guy based on that, and he certainly didn't light it up out there this past year.

I'm not saying he is or he isn't. I'm just saying it's damn early, and he hasn't done nearly enough to warrant being called the franchise QB!

[KYPack]

Can't say I've seen enough about this guy to think he's a stud, but when I did watch, I wasn't super impressed. I'm sure you have a much more intimate knowledge of him as you've seen him significantly more.

Well, I did as small "jack" on this thread.

I think Matt Ryan IS a franchise QB. As far as me seeing him more than the rest of the forum, actually all the people that went to the poster game saw him more than me (live, that is).

Joe Flacco, I did see live and I was impressed. Is he a franchise guy? Well not yet, but real close and have no doubt he will be there, probably this year.

The best rookie's I'ver ever seen are the big 4 mentioned. Marino, Manning, Ryan, and Flacco. To me, Matt Ryan is the best of that group. He had leadership and the on field production of a 6 year vet right from jump street.

He ain't in a class by himself, but it don't take long to call the roll.

[Patler]

Manning also threw 28 interceptions, completed just 56% of his passes, and his team went 3-13 his rookie year. So, he wasn't that studly.

Having a defense that gave up 444 points that season may have had a bit to do with their 3-13 record, too.

[bobblehead]

Manning also threw 28 interceptions, completed just 56% of his passes, and his team went 3-13 his rookie year. So, he wasn't that studly.

Having a defense that gave up 444 points that season may have had a bit to do with their 3-13 record, too.

Having a QB who tossed 28 picks might have had something to do with a defense giving up 444 points.

[Patler]

Manning also threw 28 interceptions, completed just 56% of his passes, and his team went 3-13 his rookie year. So, he wasn't that studly.

Having a defense that gave up 444 points that season may have had a bit to do with their 3-13 record, too.

Having a QB who tossed 28 picks might have had something to do with a defense giving up 444 points.

Or, tossing 28 picks might have been from constantly playing from way, way behind due to a "D" that stopped no one!
That defense really was very, very bad. Actually, the Colts defense has been quite bad for a lot of Manning's career.

[KYPack]

Manning also threw 28 interceptions, completed just 56% of his passes, and his team went 3-13 his rookie year. So, he wasn't that studly.

Having a defense that gave up 444 points that season may have had a bit to do with their 3-13 record, too.

Having a QB who tossed 28 picks might have had something to do with a defense giving up 444 points.

Or, tossing 28 picks might have been from constantly playing from way, way behind due to a "D" that stopped no one!
That defense really was very, very bad. Actually, the Colts defense has been quite bad for a lot of Manning's career.

Admittedly, Peyton was a great rookie QB. But you could still blitz him and he fell for a defense that knew how to bait him. He soon made the adjustments and went on to be great. Ryan knocked me out because he made himself NFL ready right from the start.

Sounds like this one would take at least a case of beer to properly resolve.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Admittedly, being behind a lot didn't help Manning. However, like Favre in 2005, it wasn't all because of everybody else. Manning did throw 16 of his 28 interceptions when the Colts were ahead, tied, or within a TD of the other team. He threw 9 interceptions in the 4th quarter when the Colts were "within 7."

[Patler]

Admittedly, being behind a lot didn't help Manning. However, like Favre in 2005, it wasn't all because of everybody else. Manning did throw 16 of his 28 interceptions when the Colts were ahead, tied, or within a TD of the other team. He threw 9 interceptions in the 4th quarter when the Colts were "within 7."

I wasn't really trying to compare Manning to Ryan or Flacco, just point out that his record wasn't entirely his fault. The 16 interceptions that you state he had with the game in contention is not an unreasonable number, especially for a rookie quarterback. I do not think that Manning was entirely responsible for the 3-13 record anymore than I think that Ryan or Flacco were the sole reasons for the records of their teams in 2008. A decent rookie quarterback on an otherwise strong team can do quite well. Even a very good rookie quarterback on a team with a horrible defense and horrible special-teams will not do very well.

There is no way to compare quarterbacks on just one season, and I think it is unreasonable to anoint any quarterback whether it be Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco or anyone else as a "franchise quarterback" based on a single season of play. I also think it is unreasonable to anoint a quarterback such as Cutler as a "franchise quarterback" when he has played only three seasons and has really accomplished nothing, not even a winning record. Had he led Denver to three successive playoffs and an overall winning record I might be willing to do so, but not based on his performance to date.

The real question is whether these four young quarterbacks look to be ones that can develop such that they can lead their teams for the foreseeable future. I believe all four have shown that type of potential. It is still amazing to me that Denver decided to throw Cutler out in spite of his potential.

[Bossman641]

Manning also threw 28 interceptions, completed just 56% of his passes, and his team went 3-13 his rookie year. So, he wasn't that studly.

Having a defense that gave up 444 points that season may have had a bit to do with their 3-13 record, too.

Maybe if Manning had been able to put together consistent drives and keep the defense off the field they wouldn't have been so winded and would have actually stopped somebody.

[Patler]

Maybe if Manning had been able to put together consistent drives and keep the defense off the field they wouldn't have been so winded and would have actually stopped somebody.

That excuse has a familiar ring to it!

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Joe Flacco, franchise QB?

One of the mysteries to me from last year is why Flacco has been annointed the prestigious title of Franchise Quarterback by so many writers. There is another article at Sportsline today referring to him as such, and there have been others at the major sports rags.

What gives? Guy was a rookie, threw 14/12 TD/INT, and under 3000 yards. The Ravens did win 2 playoff games, but he threw for 296yds, and 1 td...combined!

Maybe I'm missing something, but sure seems much ado about nothing.

Ummm.....He wins??

[Guiness]

Re: Joe Flacco, franchise QB?

Ummm.....He wins??

Trent Dilfer

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Joe Flacco, franchise QB?

Ummm.....He wins??

Trent Dilfer

LOL..Snake is not saying either are great, but sometimes a system QB is what gets it done as a winner. Dilfer won a SB and Flacco won some games last year. Sometimes the fruits of labor are not in what looks best, but the intangibles...the Ravens struggled mightily lately with other QB's with better stats. He's a franchise QB, just glad he's not ours...albeit he wins. That is the bottom line I guess.