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Anylizing Ted Thompson's drafts

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  • Anylizing Ted Thompson's drafts




    The press gazette gives him about a 33% hit rate. But is the percentage hit as important as the total quality and quantity of talent acquired? Comparing Sherman's drafts to Thompson's drafts will shed some light.


    Sherman selected 6 players in the 2002 draft and hit on 2 (Walker and Kampman). This is a 33% hit rate. However, Sherman started with 8 picks. After trading up and trading for players that didn't work out, he ended up with 6 picks. If you divide 2 into 8, you end up with Sherman getting a 25% quality Packer return rate on the 8 picks he was originally given. Not good.

    In 2003 Sherman selected 9 players (lets say 10 with Al Harris being the 10th). He ended up with 2 players good players of the 9 or 22% (Barnett and Harris). (note, I shouldn't even count Harris because the press gazette didn't count Grant, but I will out of mercy). Not good. However, he started with 11 picks (7 normal, three comp picks and another pick for Matt Bowen). 2/11 = 18%. Sherman ended up getting an 18% quality Packer return on the 11 picks he started with. Horrible.

    In 2004 Sherman again selected 6 players. Two ended up being decent (Wells and Corey Williams). 2/6 is again 33%. However, he started with 8 picks, again making it a 25% quality Packer return rate on his original 8 picks.

    At the end of Shermans reign as GM, he ended up with 21 total picks. He ended up with 6 quality Packers, about a 30% return rate. Using this percentage, you'd think Sherman did a good job drafting. However, he didn't start with 21 picks. He started with 27 picks and got 6 quality Packers. He ended up with a 22% quality Packer return rate on his original 27 picks. He ended up with 6 good Packers.




    Now for Thompson. Using the GBPG model, he ended up with 13 good picks out of 43 (about 30%, same as Sherman). They didn't count players playing for other teams as good picks, only counted ones that are quality Packers. I think that's fair because it's not just how you draft, it's if they actually help). I'm not going to go through and break each down because the press gazette already did (and there are minor details that can be quibbled with, but there always will be in this subjective world). I'm just going to use their number even though I think it will ultimately be viewed as low. Anyway. . .


    In 2005, Thompson started with 6 picks (after Sherman traded away 3 of them in previous years for Rkal truluck and d combs). I didn't count these against Sherman, so just imagine now that his number of total picks is higher and his % hit is even lower. The important stat here is that Thompson started with 6 picks.

    In 2006, Thompson started with 9 picks (although he turned 9 into 12).

    In 2007, Thompson started with 8 picks (turned 8 into 11)

    In 2008, Thompson started wtih 8 picks (turned 8 into 9)


    In total, Thompson started with 31 picks (not 43). If you divide the 13 quality picks the press gazette credits him with by 31, you end up with a 41% quality Packer return rate (double Sherman's).


    In the end, Thompson ended up with far more talent than Sherman even though they hit on the same percentage of players. When judging the draft, it's more than just percentage hit. It's the overall quality and quantity of talent brought in and that has as much to do with the number of picks as it does with the percentage hit. Because Thompson has a good percentage and a high number of picks, he ends up with more talent and is clearly better at the draft. Because sherman has a good percentage and an extremely low number of picks he has far less talent and is clearly inferior to Thompson when it comes to the draft (and just about everything else, I might add).


    And I think Thompson will end up with closer to a 50% return rate on these first 4 years when it's all said and done, but even using cruddy judgment from the press gazette, he is a stud.
    Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

  • #2
    Why is does Thompson have about a .500 record as a GM and Sherman had over .600?

    A lot goes into that (including the previous GM). For those of us that can see a little deeper, the future is not nearly so hard to predict. Anyone that still doubts Thompson, I'll just say this, "the Packers are going to be a good bet for success for the next 5 years" and I'll put my money where my mouth is to any doubter who thinks his record will below .500 for the next 5 years.
    Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

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    • #3
      TT needs some success now though, or he may not be here much longer. If the Packers go 6-10 again, it's fair to question his ability to acquire talent and/or whether he can hire the right coach.

      I expect the Packers to be good this year, but if not, the excuses may have run out.
      I can't run no more
      With that lawless crowd
      While the killers in high places
      Say their prayers out loud
      But they've summoned, they've summoned up
      A thundercloud
      They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JustinHarrell
        Why is does Thompson have about a .500 record as a GM and Sherman had over .600?

        A lot goes into that (including the previous GM). For those of us that can see a little deeper, the future is not nearly so hard to predict. Anyone that still doubts Thompson, I'll just say this, "the Packers are going to be a good bet for success for the next 5 years" and I'll put my money where my mouth is to any doubter who thinks his record will below .500 for the next 5 years.
        I don't think we'll be under .500... in fact, I think it is likely we will be over .500 - one principle contributing factor is the abysmal division we play in; however, I think it is even more likely that we end up with exactly zero Lombardi Trophies.

        I want to win Superbowls, you guys seem content to be 10-6. And, while 10-6 isn't bad if you're ascending, I see 10-6 as about as good as TT will produce.

        Certainly a 13-3 fluke like a couple of years ago is a possibility, but that's all it will be - a fluke.

        The NFL is a 4-5 year cyclical league, TT is a sub .500 GM to date, and the roster is still full of holes. The OL is a complete mess, the defense has been internally overrated by TT and his staff to the point where I think it is fair to say that the front seven is a complete mess as well.

        I give him some credit here and there, but in the end, I don't see any Superbowls, and I see plenty of holes on the roster 4-5 years into TT's tenure.
        wist

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        • #5
          Wist, on average, a team should win a SB once every 32 years. Saying they won't win one in 5 is hardly a limb. Saying the Patriots won't win one in the next 5 years isn't much of a limb. They probably won't.

          Forgive me while I think that bold prediction is anything but bold.

          I think Thompson has a good chance of leading this team to the SB in the up coming years, but to win it would be crushing the odds. Way to put your neck out there, Spartacus.

          There is a bet that is directly hinged to SB success that I'd gladly take though. Ted Thompson's odds each year of winning the SB is 1 in 32 (or 3.125%). I'll gladly bet 3.125 dollars to your hundred dollars each year for the next 5 years. I would bet as much as you wanted. If you felt like betting 5000 dollars, I'd bet 31.25 dollars for every 1000 dollars (one bet for each year). If you wanted to bet $20,000 I would proportionately increase my bet.

          I think the Packers have the QB. I think they have the offensive coach and now they have the defensive coach. I think they have the GM to surround them with increasingly better talent, and I will gladly take any bet in which I view the win/loss threshold as being mathematically average.

          If you're really bold, and as confident in your opinion as you talk on here, you should gladly bet against Thompson having a less than average chance at winning the SB in the next five years. The OL is a mess. They have a new defensive coach that is going to run a boring, cruddy defense because he has no pieces. Surely Thompson's odds of winning one are below average (below 1 in 32 in each of the next 5 years) and betting against him having even an average shot should be a no brainer for you. If you were really as bold as you talk, you would give him a less than average shot at a SB and give me more odds. I don't think you're bold at all though. I don't think you'd take a bet in which the threshold was average.
          Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

          Comment


          • #6
            1 in 32 seems too convenient; don't tell the better organizations about those odds as they'd find them unacceptable.

            Giants, Steelers, Colts, Patriots

            If you deem yourself to have one of the better organizations and the better GM's the 1/32 picture is a IMO just a convenient excuse for not winning the big one
            TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wist43
              Originally posted by JustinHarrell
              Why is does Thompson have about a .500 record as a GM and Sherman had over .600?

              A lot goes into that (including the previous GM). For those of us that can see a little deeper, the future is not nearly so hard to predict. Anyone that still doubts Thompson, I'll just say this, "the Packers are going to be a good bet for success for the next 5 years" and I'll put my money where my mouth is to any doubter who thinks his record will below .500 for the next 5 years.
              I don't think we'll be under .500... in fact, I think it is likely we will be over .500 - one principle contributing factor is the abysmal division we play in; however, I think it is even more likely that we end up with exactly zero Lombardi Trophies.

              I want to win Superbowls, you guys seem content to be 10-6. And, while 10-6 isn't bad if you're ascending, I see 10-6 as about as good as TT will produce.

              Certainly a 13-3 fluke like a couple of years ago is a possibility, but that's all it will be - a fluke.

              The NFL is a 4-5 year cyclical league, TT is a sub .500 GM to date, and the roster is still full of holes. The OL is a complete mess, the defense has been internally overrated by TT and his staff to the point where I think it is fair to say that the front seven is a complete mess as well.

              I give him some credit here and there, but in the end, I don't see any Superbowls, and I see plenty of holes on the roster 4-5 years into TT's tenure.

              I don't think our roster is as bad as you do Wist; but I'm certainly not in the glorification mode either.

              TT has rebuilt our roster nicely; now I hope in the future he's willing to take the risk and succeed in hitting big on a couple stars.
              TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bretsky
                1 in 32 seems too convenient; don't tell the better organizations about those odds as they'd find them unacceptable.

                Giants, Steelers, Colts, Patriots

                If you deem yourself to have one of the better organizations and the better GM's the 1/32 picture is a IMO just a convenient excuse for not winning the big one
                That's average, Bretsky. It's not a convenient number. It's the reality that you so blissfully ignore with your every day thinking.
                Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                  Originally posted by Bretsky
                  1 in 32 seems too convenient; don't tell the better organizations about those odds as they'd find them unacceptable.

                  Giants, Steelers, Colts, Patriots

                  If you deem yourself to have one of the better organizations and the better GM's the 1/32 picture is a IMO just a convenient excuse for not winning the big one
                  That's average, Bretsky. It's not a convenient number. It's the reality that you so blissfully ignore with your every day thinking.

                  Average is unacceptable

                  If that is what I was looking for in my everyday life then my life would be far far different
                  TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bretsky, were you happy with Brett Favre as QB?
                    Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Average

                      Originally posted by Bretsky
                      Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                      Originally posted by Bretsky
                      1 in 32 seems too convenient; don't tell the better organizations about those odds as they'd find them unacceptable.

                      Giants, Steelers, Colts, Patriots

                      If you deem yourself to have one of the better organizations and the better GM's the 1/32 picture is a IMO just a convenient excuse for not winning the big one
                      That's average, Bretsky. It's not a convenient number. It's the reality that you so blissfully ignore with your every day thinking.

                      Average is unacceptable

                      If that is what I was looking for in my everyday life then my life would be far far different
                      Yeah, but see for guys like him, average is acceptable. He's content with this dumb 1 out of 32 bs excuse that he dreamed up. Ted Thompson is an average draft GM period. Those are the facts.

                      My whole point has been and will continue to be that the Gren Bay Packers deserve better than average. Let teams like the Vikings and Bears settle for average. We need to be above average. That 33% need's to be 51%.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Stupid

                        Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                        Bretsky, were you happy with Brett Favre as QB?
                        Now your going to compare a QB and GM? Congrat's my friend. You just set the bar for the dumbest sports statement of all time.........

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                          Bretsky, were you happy with Brett Favre as QB?


                          Oh come on....why did you delete out all the other drivel ?????????????
                          TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                            Originally posted by Bretsky
                            1 in 32 seems too convenient; don't tell the better organizations about those odds as they'd find them unacceptable.

                            Giants, Steelers, Colts, Patriots

                            If you deem yourself to have one of the better organizations and the better GM's the 1/32 picture is a IMO just a convenient excuse for not winning the big one
                            That's average, Bretsky. It's not a convenient number. It's the reality that you so blissfully ignore with your every day thinking.
                            As Bretsky pointed out... not average to the Steelers, Patriots, Giants, et al.

                            And that's my point, I don't want to wait another 32-13=19 years

                            I suffered thru the 70's and 80's along with a lot of other guys on this forum... JH, you and a lot of our younger bretheren have only seen reasonably good times.

                            Trust me on this... the years have a way of ticking by, and before you know it, you're 15 years down the line, with no Lombardi Trophies - that is, if you accept "the average".

                            As Bretsky said, "average" isn't good enough.
                            wist

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                            • #15
                              I wanted to bait you in and I was tipping you off where I was going.
                              Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

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