Nick Barnett's contract

[pbmax]

That is every LB in the NFL!!!! cmon.

Barnett per Patler's research made most of his tackles at 1-3 yards. RIGHT where he is supposed to as a MLB.

Every LB makes most of his tackles in this area, as every running back has the most runs for this distance. And there are more runs than completed passes. Entire teams might make the most tackles in this area.

Every play other than PTAs(most) and TDs results in a tackle.

The goal of a good defense is not to make more tackles, it is to make tackles BEFORE yielding a first down. Essentially to make fewer tackles, because a high percentage don't allow a first down.

Some of this is beyond the defenses control as the O may stink or turn the ball over, giving the opposing O more possessions.

Did Barnett prevent first downs when he had responsibility for the area?

I see alot of pursuit. But I am not a keen enough observer of LB play to tell whether Barnett is suffering from lack of support on the Dline or he simply is wasted at the point of attack.

[Bretsky]

Tru e about Barnett not being a game changing.

There's a guy that makes some game changing play on D. His name is Ahmad Carroll and he is gonna make evenyone STFU this season.

Carroll Kool Aide Crack Rat ?

[Tony Oday]

if you can hold the opponets to 3 yards or less every down you win.

Barnett does need to start making more 'plays' in terms of turning the ball over. I would like to see some strips and ints. I do have a question though. With teh condition of the LB corp in recent years is he being coached to make the 'safe' play?

I cant wait to see him teamed with taylor and hawk. I think this is the year he makes the jump from solid MLB to stud MLB.

On the attitude I have never seen him as a punk? Do you know him or do you see it in interviews?

If he was a 5th round pick!!!! I mean cmon he would be super stud. Atleast he isnt E.J. Henderson!

[Bretsky]

if you can hold the opponets to 3 yards or less every down you win.

Barnett does need to start making more 'plays' in terms of turning the ball over. I would like to see some strips and ints. I do have a question though. With teh condition of the LB corp in recent years is he being coached to make the 'safe' play?

I cant wait to see him teamed with taylor and hawk. I think this is the year he makes the jump from solid MLB to stud MLB.

On the attitude I have never seen him as a punk? Do you know him or do you see it in interviews?

If he was a 5th round pick!!!! I mean cmon he would be super stud. Atleast he isnt E.J. Henderson!

Barnett is a solid LB who would probably break into every starting lineup in the NFL, or almost every one. I agree he needs to create more turnovers to be even considered near elite.

Is this coaching ? Maybe some ? Remember a guy people in here didn't like much in Ed Donatell ? Nearly all the teams he coached on D, good or bad, created a lot of turnovers. He coached it and mentally drilled it into them; maybe we need more of that ?

Regarding the attitude, I think he's alright. It's not like he's Joey Thomas or Ahmad Carroll, but it was bothersome when he makes a play and celebrates when GB was getting their @ss handed to them. THis happened a couple times last year.

[wist43]

I know most of you guys like Barnett... after Harris, Joyner, and Nickerson I think everyone was relieved to get some youth and athleticism into the middle.

I, like many of you, tape every game and go back analyze play... I pay particular attention to overall defense and OL play. For just about every game, I watch Barnett on every play - bottom line is, overall, he's a liability b/c of his lack of physicality, toughness, and his overall lack of instinct and understanding of the game.

Sometimes it's absolutely inexplicable why he does some of the things he does on the field... I'll play the tape forward and backward and can find no justifiable reason why he zigged when he clearly should have zagged.

How many times have we seen RB's go the distance, completely untouched b/c Barnett took the wrong gap??? Some may argue that that gap may have been his reponsibility, but a LB has to have a nose for the ball, and the instincts to see where the play is going... Barnett has neither, and will always be a liability b/c of it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I, like many of you, tape every game and go back analyze play...

liar. you said you are only in front of the tv during packer game, and out golfing the rest of time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Regarding the attitude, I think he's alright. It's not like he's Joey Thomas or Ahmad Carroll, but it was bothersome when he makes a play and celebrates when GB was getting their @ss handed to them. THis happened a couple times last year.

I agree. Some people can't handle the Samuarai move apparently. It's just the way it is in the NFL. Unfortunately, we can't run back the clock. Does that make him a bad person? No. It just means times have changed. Off the field, I haven't heard bad things about him. In fact, I'm usually relatively impressed with his interviews.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some people can't handle the Samuarai move apparently.

Gilbert Brown's gravedigger move was a source of pride for packer fans. It's amazing how style points count so much!

[Patler]

How many times have we seen RB's go the distance, completely untouched b/c Barnett took the wrong gap??? Some may argue that that gap may have been his reponsibility, but a LB has to have a nose for the ball, and the instincts to see where the play is going... Barnett has neither, and will always be a liability b/c of it.

The only problem with that analysis Wist is that in Barnett's first two years the defensive philosophy was gap responsibilty, regardless. What you describe is exactly what the philosophy was opposed to. Slowik, especially, hammered into them that they were WRONG if they left their responsibilty, even if they made the play. I remember a quote from him to the effect that everyone needed to trust the scheme and their team mates, and if it didn't work it would be the coaches fault. So in that sense Barnett was doing what he was coached to do, it was the coaches fault and the schemes fault and luckily both are gone.

Barnett was different last year, and in some respects it was almost like another rookie year for him. He is expected to make plays, and I thought he put himself in position to do that much more last year. Unfortunately, he didn't finish them. He had quite a few missed tackles behind the line of scrimmage. The good part was he showed much better "read and react" than I thought he had to get to those. The bad part was poor tackling, but that can be improved more than the instinctive things can.

In my opinion, Barnett still could be a very good player. This will be a determinative year for him. He has the experience overall, and for the first time he won't be learning a new scheme.

You seem to blame him because he was a first round pick. That's not his fault, or Carrols, or Reynolds. Unlike some who throw away their opportunities, these guys are trying, they may just not have the ability to match. That's not their fault.

[Bretsky]

I am impressed with everything he does off the field as well and his interviews. I know Wist hates Barnett; but if my memory serves me right he was the right call there and the best pick around that area. Go back and look at those drafted behind him; Barnett was the pick Sherman got right.

[mraynrand]

Talentwise, he's average in coverage and abysmal against the run. He can't take on blocks, he gets washed away in trash, he consistently takes bad angles, he almost never hits the right gap, he's a drag down tackler, and he hits like a gnat trying to tackle a tank - in short, he has speed and nothing else... he has virtually no instinct for the game of football.

I think this is a pretty accurate analysis of Barnett, but a little extreme. I too watch the tapes. I see Barnett taking false steps, filling the wrong gap, and displaying assignment confusion. However, I also watch the MLB on the other side of the ball, and often, I see a guy that's worse. Barnett doesn't get sucked in by play action the way a lot of other MLBs do, and even when he does, he has the recovery speed to minimize the damage.

About his draft position - at #29 you are getting mostly misses. A recent vote of (I think) sportswriters or scouts/GMs rated the best #29 pick (prior to Barnett) as being none other than George Teague. I think you have to avoid the tendency to cherry pick (in a way, that's what I did with Teague and the #29 pick). If you only look at Barnett relative to successful LBs drafted in the first round, or if you only compare him with other good and/or probowl caliber LBs, you're going to be disappointed. It you look at all the guys playing MLB, you'll realize that Barnett isn't quite as bad as you think, RELATIVELY speaking.

[Bretsky]

THIS IS THE PLAYERS WE HAD TO CHOOSE FROM; IT'S CLEAR BARNETT WAS THE RIGHT CALL.

SURE YOU COULD SAY BOLDIN, BUT HE WASN"T AN OPTION SINCE GREEN BAY PICKED JAVON WALKER THE YEAR BEFORE THE ROBERT THE FRAUD FERGUSON TWO YEARS BEFORE



29 Green Bay NICK BARNETT Outside linebacker Oregon State
30 San Diego (from Philadelphia) SAMUEL DAVIS, Jr. Cornerback Texas A&M
31 Oakland NNAMBI ASOMUGHA Cornerback California
32 Oakland TYLER BRAYTON Defensive end Colorado

ROUND 2
1 Cincinnati ERIC STEINBACH Guard Iowa
2 Detroit BOSS BAILEY Outside linebacker Georgia
3 Chicago CHARLES TILLMAN Cornerback Louisiana Lafayette
4 New England (from Houston) EUGENE WILSON II Cornerback Illinois
5 Arizona (from New Orleans) JONATHAN STINCHCOMB Tackle Georgia
6 Dallas AL JOHNSON Center Wisconsin
7 Jacksonville RASHEAN MATHIS Safety Bethune-Cookman
8 Minnesota E.J. HENDERSON Outside linebacker Maryland
9 Houston (from Baltimore) BENJAMIN JOPPRU Tight end Michigan
10 Seattle KEN HAMLIN Safety Arkansas
11 St. Louis PISA TINOISAMOA Safety Hawaii
12 Washington TAYLOR JACOBS Wide receiver Florida
13 New England (from Carolina) BETHEL JOHNSON Wide receiver Texas A&M
14 San Diego DRAYTON FLORENCE Cornerback Tuskegee
15 Kansas City KAWIKA MITCHELL Inside linebacker South Florida
16 Buffalo CHRISTOPHER KELSAY Defensive end Nebraska
17 Miami EDDIE MOORE Outside linebacker Tennessee
18 Carolina (from New England) BRUCE NELSON Center Iowa
19 Denver TERRY PIERCE Outside linebacker Kansas State
20 Cleveland CHAUN THOMPSON Outside linebacker West Texas A&M
21 N.Y. Jets VICTOR HOBSON Outside linebacker Michigan
22 Arizona (from New Orleans) ANQUAN BOLDIN Wide receiver Florida State
23 Atlanta BRYAN SCOTT Safety Penn State
24 N.Y. Giants OSI UMENYIORA Defensive end Troy State
25 San Francisco ANTHONY ADAMS, Jr. Nose guard Penn State
26 Indianapolis MICHAEL DOSS Safety Ohio State
27 Pittsburgh ALONZO JACKSON Defensive end Florida State
28 Tennessee TYRONE CALICO Wide receiver Middle Tennessee State
29 Philadelphia L.J. SMITH Tight end Rutgers
30 San Diego (from Philadelphia via Green Bay) TERRANCE KIEL Safety Texas A&M
31 Oakland TEYO JOHNSON Wide receiver Stanford
32 Tampa Bay DEWAYNE WHITE Defensive end Louisville

[Partial]

7 Jacksonville RASHEAN MATHIS Safety Bethune-Cookman
10 Seattle KEN HAMLIN Safety Arkansas
24 N.Y. Giants OSI UMENYIORA Defensive end Troy State
26 Indianapolis MICHAEL DOSS Safety Ohio State
Boldin - forgot him initially

Only 5 players better below him. Considering they were all ranked much lower than him, it was a pretty good pick. You win some and you lose some, and sure there were better players drafted below him, but he was a solid pick all things considered.

[RashanGary]

Good points by Patler.

Wist said Barnett zigged when he should have zagged and Patler pointed out gap responsibility.

I don't know if it's a little of both or most of one, but we don't know what the DC has planned, so for us to assume he was supposed to do one thing is clearly jsut that; an assumption.

I agree he needs to knock more balls loose and make big plays on a somewhat regular basis to be considered top notch. I think we've seen what Barnett brings and he is a good LB. Not great at all, but good. Hopefully Hawk is that difference maker who acctually forces some TO's. If not, the Pack will have a very average Defense once again.

[wist43]

The play that stands out most in my mind is the Tiki Barber run from a couple of years ago. Everybody did their job, i.e. DT's ate up the G's and Center, the play was there for Barnett to make. The gigantic hole that Barber ran thru was impossible to miss... Barber didn't miss it. Barnett inexplicably right out of the hole, and Barber ran 76 yds untouched.

The announcers were just as stunned as I was... what could he have been looking at???

That's just one play, and you could write it off as such; but, he does it all the time. The consequences may not be as dire as in that instance, but if you watch Barnett down in, and down out, you see it happen all the time.

We're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so I hope he improves and plays better, but seeing is believing. He played better last year, i.e. close to average, so maybe there's hope, but at this point, I'm still a huge skeptic.