Mock Drafts

[Lurker64]

Re: Mock Drafts

He's an elite prospect at both. You gotta believe that he got better at blocking by spending a year at DE. His measurables are every bit as good, if not better than Olsen's. I've said this before, he could very well be the first TE off the board this year (not every team is looking at him as a DE). Blocking keeps TE's off the field early, not catching. He's not just a "red zone TE", that is for big slow guys like Franks, guys that can run a legit 4.5 40 need safety attention, linebackers can't cover that.

Plus there is a failsafe with him. Try him at DE/OLB and it doesn't work out....you still have an elite TE prospect on your hands. Try him at TE and it doesn't work out, you still have an elite DE/OLB prospect on your hands.

He's pretty win-win.

Plus he's a kick blocking ace.

I'm looking forward to the team that drafts him announcing

"Connor Barwin: Defensive End, Tight End, Outside Linebacker; Cincinnati."

[Waldo]

Re: Mock Drafts

He's an elite prospect at both. You gotta believe that he got better at blocking by spending a year at DE. His measurables are every bit as good, if not better than Olsen's. I've said this before, he could very well be the first TE off the board this year (not every team is looking at him as a DE). Blocking keeps TE's off the field early, not catching. He's not just a "red zone TE", that is for big slow guys like Franks, guys that can run a legit 4.5 40 need safety attention, linebackers can't cover that.

Plus there is a failsafe with him. Try him at DE/OLB and it doesn't work out....you still have an elite TE prospect on your hands. Try him at TE and it doesn't work out, you still have an elite DE/OLB prospect on your hands.

He's pretty win-win.

Plus he's a kick blocking ace.

I'm looking forward to the team that drafts him announcing

"Connor Barwin: Defensive End, Tight End, Outside Linebacker; Cincinnati."

Maybe they just say "Connor Barwin, athlete from the University of Cincinnati"

I would say "football player", but he played basketball there too.

[Joemailman]

Draft Tek http://www.drafttek.com/round12009.asp has a 7 round mock that also has the Packers taking Barwin. Their Packer Picks:

1. B.J. Raji/DT/Boston College
2. Connor Barwin/OLB/Cincinnati
3. Phil Loadholt/OT/Oklahoma
3. Mike Mickens/CB/Cincinnati
4. Richard Quinn/TE/North Carolina
5. Sammie Lee Hill/DL/Stillman
6. Otis Wiley/SS/Michigan St.
6. Brandon Underwood/FS/Cincinnati
7. Jeremiah Johnson/RB/Oregon

[HarveyWallbangers]

Draft Tek http://www.drafttek.com/round12009.asp has a 7 round mock that also has the Packers taking Barwin. Their Packer Picks:

1. B.J. Raji/DT/Boston College
2. Connor Barwin/OLB/Cincinnati
3. Phil Loadholt/OT/Oklahoma
3. Mike Mickens/CB/Cincinnati
4. Richard Quinn/TE/North Carolina
5. Sammie Lee Hill/DL/Stillman
6. Otis Wiley/SS/Michigan St.
6. Brandon Underwood/FS/Cincinnati
7. Jeremiah Johnson/RB/Oregon

Mickens and Hill. Nice. I'd like this draft--although the OT is said to be a late riser.

[Waldo]

3 players from little Cincinnati

Come on....

[PlantPage55]

I would lose my shit (in a good way) if we drafted both Tyson Jackson and Connor Barwin. I may even cry.

[Joemailman]

3 players from little Cincinnati

Come on....

Cincinnati won the Big East and played in the Orange Bowl. Not so little anymore.

That said, the DraftTek mock is done by a computer. Not sure that it takes into account what school players are coming from.

[Partial]

Waldo has me coming around to TyJack. I think Harv was the first one tooting his horn a few months back, right?

[Joemailman]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

[PlantPage55]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

Exactly. I've always liked Jackson as a prospect, but he's simply not as exciting or controversial to talk about as the rush LBs or weapons like Crabtree.

[Waldo]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

It's not just that.

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

Those grades are very different. A big run stuffing LDE isn't really all that valuable for a 4-3 team. You can get Montgomeries late. First round 4-3 DE's are graded (right or wrong) solely on their ability to get to the QB.

When you start to consider a guys ability to 2 gap the POA, read line blocking to flow to the ball, hold his ground when doubled, stack and shed, and crash a gap and maintain contain, and set up plays with his linebackers rushing and against the run, plus getting push on the QB from the inside (little need for "turning the corner" or "bend" inside), and make zone drops, that grade becomes very different. A guy can kinda suck as a 4-3 DE, just be a run stopper, but put him at 5-tech in a 3-4 and his value is totally different.

I suspect that most draftnik scouts are evaluating him as a 4-3 LDE, and not projecting him into a 3-4 at DE and applying a grade. The season he had a lot of sacks (2006)....he was a 3-4 5-tech, they switched to a 4-3 defense after that.

We are seeing that in fact at 5-tech, what 3-4 teams are rating him as, he has a VERY high grade. I've been told that he has a similar grade to Seymore, higher than K. Williams (who also was considered an ideal 5 tech out of college).

[Fritz]

Y'know Waldo, TT does seem to go back to particular schools from time to time...Louisville, for example. So grabbing more than one guy from Cinci may not be such a stretch.

Having said that, I don't see Barwin slipping to the Packer's spot in the second round.

I'd be jacked with Jackson, especially if TT can trade down a few spots and still nab him. I'd be radical with Raji. I'd be okay with Oher.

[Lurker64]

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

With 32" arms, I wouldn't think Raji's DE grades are very good

[rbaloha1]

I don't see TT trading up from 41 to take anyone. Using this list as a point of referencehttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings, I see a bunch of guys in the 35-50 range that could help the Packers.

This is one measure. Where was Jordy Nelson at this point pre draft?

Recall Nelson was moving up quickly which forced Nelson to make the selection earlier than projected. Barwin could be the same scenario. TT loves all around football players like Corey Hall, Jordy Nelson, etc.

[Waldo]

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

With 32" arms, I wouldn't think Raji's DE grades are very good

I was thinking more along the line of 4-3 UT or NT and 3-4 NT with Raji. Kinda different tasks, his pass rushing ability is fairly useless to a 3-4 team, as the NT comes off the field in most nickle sets. Granted it gets used on rare occasions, but run blocking skill is given much more weight by 3-4 teams.

I don't think 3-4 teams have nearly as high a grade on Raji as 4-3 teams do. He isn't nearly as good agaisnt the run as he is made out to be, Brace is a lot better. Raji is owned in 1 on 1 run blocking with a lineman far too often for comfort. The physical ability is there, but he's a bit of a project at 3-4 NT, nobody knows if he has the mental fortitude for it.