The official 2009 DRAFT thread

[Bretsky]

Re: Crabtree

Woke up with a sick feeling in my gut this morning. Found out why after reading McGinn. I sure hope someone is blowing smoke cause if Crabtree is the highest rated player on Teddy's board, then we truly are in serious trouble.

Anyone with half a cup of football IQ knows the Red Raiders WR's do not run Pro style Routes on a consistent basis. Crabtree is the result of a sysytem-one that does not and will never work in the Pros. Unless MM is gonna run 5 wide 75% of the time, Crabby is a bad fit.

Why would you draft a guy who did'nt play in a Pro style offense? It's freakin insane! Not to mention this fool's character. Word is the GM's who did interview him were not happy with his "self involved love".

Have you ever seen him play? McShay says he's the most complete, legitimate #1 WR in the draft.

Packnut; I don't see where you are coming from. Man among boyz

[Gunakor]

Should TT take a deal from the Pats. Would you take a lower 1st rd pick plus another 2nd rd pick? That would give GB 5 picks in the 1st three rds. I say yes....increase the odds of lading more better players.

07:22 AM ET 04.25 SHARE PRINT IT MY T&R
The Patriots are trying to move up into the top 10 of the draft -- but low in the top 10. Executives from two teams tell me New England offered its first-round pick and middle of three second-round picks (the 23rd and 47th picks overall) to Jacksonville for the eighth pick in the draft. Jacksonville GM Gene Smith, I'm told, said no ... but I also hear the Patriots might be looking to Green Bay at nine to move as well. Who might be the object of their affection? I'm told it may be a surprise, because smart money would say the target is LSU's Tyson Jackson, the best 3-4 defensive end in the draft and the only end versatile enough to play every spot on the defensive line. But I'm not sure it's Jackson. I think it might be an offensive player. Sorry to be so cryptic, but I truly don't know.

SI.com

Yes, trade down, I'd be thrilled!

As I posted yesterday, this deal makes little sense from the "point value" perspective. The #9 pick is worth 1350 points, but the Patriots' offer totals only 1130 or so points. To even it up, the Pats would either have to throw in another pick - a third rounder - or make the offer their first plus the #34 pick.

Just say no, Ted. Don't do it unless the Pats ante up.

I keep hearing Jackson might go #3 to Kansas City anyway, and if he did it would make this whole issue moot. Pats aren't going to ante up to move up to #3.

[packrulz]

Should TT take a deal from the Pats. Would you take a lower 1st rd pick plus another 2nd rd pick? That would give GB 5 picks in the 1st three rds. I say yes....increase the odds of lading more better players.

07:22 AM ET 04.25 SHARE PRINT IT MY T&R
The Patriots are trying to move up into the top 10 of the draft -- but low in the top 10. Executives from two teams tell me New England offered its first-round pick and middle of three second-round picks (the 23rd and 47th picks overall) to Jacksonville for the eighth pick in the draft. Jacksonville GM Gene Smith, I'm told, said no ... but I also hear the Patriots might be looking to Green Bay at nine to move as well. Who might be the object of their affection? I'm told it may be a surprise, because smart money would say the target is LSU's Tyson Jackson, the best 3-4 defensive end in the draft and the only end versatile enough to play every spot on the defensive line. But I'm not sure it's Jackson. I think it might be an offensive player. Sorry to be so cryptic, but I truly don't know.

SI.com

Yes, trade down, I'd be thrilled!

As I posted yesterday, this deal makes little sense from the "point value" perspective. The #9 pick is worth 1350 points, but the Patriots' offer totals only 1130 or so points. To even it up, the Pats would either have to throw in another pick - a third rounder - or make the offer their first plus the #34 pick.

Just say no, Ted. Don't do it unless the Pats ante up.

One problem with "point value" is it doesn't take into account the quality of players available at their respective positions, it's just crunching numbers. Most experts feel this draft is weak on top but strong in the 2nd round, so you have to take into account the human aspect, plus, it's cheaper on the salary cap.

[Fritz]

True, true, but if a team is wanting to move up it's because they want a specific player - they value that player highly. So they must think that player is worthwhile - thus the point value chart.

I just wouldn't let the Patriots bend me over if I were Thompson, and to me that's what that trade would be. Make the Pats even up the point value, or sit tight and take the highest guy on the board.

[sheepshead]

Just for fun kids:

http://packerslounge.com/?p=5022

[sheepshead]

Rumor Post
Randolph Hiedler

Ok this is what I have heard this evening:

Thompson is going to be looking at getting a starter in the first round. I have heard about names that top two different groups on the draft board from what has been observed over the last week.

Group A (note that these are only the names that were talked about heavily and not all of them):

Orapko
Raji
Wells
Jackson
Crabtree

Group B:

Jenkins
Brace
Coffman
Oher
English

Several potential trades have been worked out:

1. Dolphins
2. Patriots
3. Eagles
4. Giants

Also Driver, Harris, and Kampman have came up as names for draft day trade bait.

Where did this come from? This looks plausible.

[Rastak]

True, true, but if a team is wanting to move up it's because they want a specific player - they value that player highly. So they must think that player is worthwhile - thus the point value chart.

I just wouldn't let the Patriots bend me over if I were Thompson, and to me that's what that trade would be. Make the Pats even up the point value, or sit tight and take the highest guy on the board.

The point chart is pretty outdated at this point. If Detroit tried to trade that #1 (before they signed Stafford) they would have found zero takers at the point value chart price. Tons of cash to be laid out on unproven players in the top 10.

[Gunakor]

CRABTREE
CRABTREE
CRABTREE
CRABTREE

Wouldn't be too terribly upset if he were the pick, but there are other guys I'd like to have more than that. If Raji, J. Smith, A. Smith, Curry and Jackson are all gone before our pick, then Crabtree is bound to still be there so that's a no brainer. But, with one QB gone already and the Rams looking to nab Sanchez at #2, that doesn't seem likely. If Crabtree makes it past Seattle, I don't think he makes it past Oakland.

Raji might just be there for us after all.

Of those picks I'd be very fine with Curry; I'm alright with the others but they don't excite me nearly as much as the Crab. They are examples of need over BPA

Many think Oakland wants one of those OT's

J. Smith is going to be an elite LT in this league, and A. Smith is going to be an elite RT in this league. Bank on both players. We need new bookend tackles, and either would be a fantastic start.

Besides, Crabtree isn't going to be the next Michael Irvin on a team where the ball is spread around as much as it is in Green Bay. Not to mention McCarthy's desire to run the ball and run it often.

I honestly think the best thing for Crabtree is to go to a team who needs a WR and loves to throw the ball (Oakland), and the best thing for Green Bay is not to follow Matt Millen's example of drafting a WR with the first pick in consecutive drafts. Especially when the WR we drafted first last season was more than effective, only dropping one ball thrown in his direction all year long.

[Packnut]

Re: Crabtree

Woke up with a sick feeling in my gut this morning. Found out why after reading McGinn. I sure hope someone is blowing smoke cause if Crabtree is the highest rated player on Teddy's board, then we truly are in serious trouble.

Anyone with half a cup of football IQ knows the Red Raiders WR's do not run Pro style Routes on a consistent basis. Crabtree is the result of a sysytem-one that does not and will never work in the Pros. Unless MM is gonna run 5 wide 75% of the time, Crabby is a bad fit.

Why would you draft a guy who did'nt play in a Pro style offense? It's freakin insane! Not to mention this fool's character. Word is the GM's who did interview him were not happy with his "self involved love".

Have you ever seen him play? McShay says he's the most complete, legitimate #1 WR in the draft.

Packnut; I don't see where you are coming from. Man among boyz

The routes you run at Texas Tech are not the routes you run in the NFL. That is a quote from Kiper. Since I am a college football gambling addict , and I love betting on offense minded teams, I am very familiar with TT. I've watched Leach"s system turn average WR's into guys who look like the next coming. Every college fantasy football season I take the TT WR's as my second pick and every year I win.

You also have to factor in that secondary play in the Big 12 is pretty much an exercise in futility. I'm not disputing that Crabtree has talent but ask yourself this, "is he better than Calvin Johnson was when he came out?" The answer is no and look how Johnson has struggled to adapt to the pro game.

WR is the biggest crapshoot in the NFL draft. It's been proven time and time again. Just look at the number of 1st rd WR busts. The list is staggering and most of them had the same hype coming out of college.

[Fritz]

Okay, Sheep, I don't usually watch that stuff, but that was funny.

[Bretsky]

CRABTREE
CRABTREE
CRABTREE
CRABTREE

Wouldn't be too terribly upset if he were the pick, but there are other guys I'd like to have more than that. If Raji, J. Smith, A. Smith, Curry and Jackson are all gone before our pick, then Crabtree is bound to still be there so that's a no brainer. But, with one QB gone already and the Rams looking to nab Sanchez at #2, that doesn't seem likely. If Crabtree makes it past Seattle, I don't think he makes it past Oakland.

Raji might just be there for us after all.

Of those picks I'd be very fine with Curry; I'm alright with the others but they don't excite me nearly as much as the Crab. They are examples of need over BPA

Many think Oakland wants one of those OT's

J. Smith is going to be an elite LT in this league, and A. Smith is going to be an elite RT in this league. Bank on both players. We need new bookend tackles, and either would be a fantastic start.

Besides, Crabtree isn't going to be the next Michael Irvin on a team where the ball is spread around as much as it is in Green Bay. Not to mention McCarthy's desire to run the ball and run it often.

I honestly think the best thing for Crabtree is to go to a team who needs a WR and loves to throw the ball (Oakland), and the best thing for Green Bay is not to follow Matt Millen's example of drafting a WR with the first pick in consecutive drafts. Especially when the WR we drafted first last season was more than effective, only dropping one ball thrown in his direction all year long.

Oops; I didn't see the J Smith

Guys I'd be on board with over Crab are the top two OT's in Smith and Monroe, and Curry.

A Smith still scares me; I don't want the guy

Millen drafted the wrong guys; position aside. If Crabtree is a future star it's a good pick.

It's like free agency IMO. It's ok to overpay some....as long as you've signed the right player.

Risk is you overpay and grab the wrong guy...then you are screwed for years

[pack4to84]

Packers Draft room Live cam

http://www.packers.com/draft/2009/cam/

Not live yet.

[Gunakor]

A. Smith only scares me at LT. He'll be more than okay as a RT, especially for a team like Green Bay who has an extremely mobile QB with a quick release. Just can't slide him over to the left side when Clifton is done.

[Packnut]

One NFL radio dude said the Diva reports were a crock of shit. I wish I could remember who it was but he essentially said that he'd spoken to him several times and the dude isn't in the least a diva. He said if you want any confirmation on his ability watch film and see the fact he catches everything thrown his way.

Now Percy Harvin, he's a more self involved cat. I also hope he drops to 22!

The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia. - Tony Grossi, The Cleveland Plain Dealer

Had the reports been of a national nature, I would agree with you. But since they come from the team's local paper, I suspect there is something to them.

[sheepshead]

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