TRADE VIEWS

[HarveyWallbangers]

I haven't found a draft/point chart that makes the deal seem close.

Actually, somebody posted that there are three charts. One had it lopsided in favor of New England, one had it favor New England but not by a lot, and one had it even. I think he got the low-end of the trade, but it won't matter when Clay Matthews becomes an All-Pro.

[bobblehead]

My view goes like this. TT was absolutely going to trade the BF pick for multiples or to move up like he did. NO WAY he wanted one single identifiable player linked to BF leaving green bay, and he accomplished that. If he made that pick where he got it we would have NEVER heard anything else about said player.

Part 2. This was a very shallow and somewhat weak draft by most peoples honest account. I think TT did not have any players graded as worth 2nd or 3rd round picks so he used them to move up and pick a guy he did have graded higher than where he went. Probably the last guy of interest he had in this draft. I also think its the reason BB traded for picks next year. Not much to love in this draft as 2-3 round talent, solution, grab the one guy left you like and give up the 2-3 picks.

Will it work?? I think TT's reputation of spotting talent is on the line if Mathews doesn't excel so it better.

[Joemailman]

Without a draft chart, I'd say an even trade would have been a 2nd and a 3rd for the 1st. Aside from that, TT gave up a 3rd and got back a 5th, or the equivalent of giving up a 4th. If Matthews is as good as TT thinks he is, it's worth it.

[Bretsky]

I haven't found a draft/point chart that makes the deal seem close.

Actually, somebody posted that there are three charts. One had it lopsided in favor of New England, one had it favor New England but not by a lot, and one had it even. I think he got the low-end of the trade, but it won't matter when Clay Matthews becomes an All-Pro.

That's what I've been saying all along...but I use an "if" instead of when

TT must've really loved the guy so ya gotta have faith

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's what I've been saying all along...but I use an "if" instead of when

TT must've really loved the guy so ya gotta have faith

Matthews looks a lot like Chad Greenway to me. What do you think Bretsky?

[Patler]

That was a good dance by Patler but I don't agree at all. Bill Bellichek traded two third round picks for two seconds next year. Not saying TT would ever do that....but those picks have values and I haven't found a draft/point chart that makes the deal seem close.

We gave up a 2nd and two thirds for a 1st and a 5th.

However, as I've said numerous times.....while I feel BB robbed us a bit....if Matthews turns into a stud it was still worth it and I commend TT for being aggressive.

So I assume you would disagree with Wolf's view on the value of compensatory picks then? I assume you think a third round compensatory pick should be treated in the same way as any other late third, early fourth round pick?

My comment was no dance. Just a reasoned opinion. The Jet's pick had value, but not as much as you think. Or, do you think every pick at the same position every year in every situation has nearly the same value? The Packers had 0 investment in the Jets pick they traded. Last year at this time they didn't have it, nor did they have the player they "gave up" to get it. He was retired. They got the pick for absolutely nothing, with even less investment than in a compensatory pick. Why not use it to take a shot at something?

I would agree that we have to consider any pick the Packers have to "return" to the Jets in evaluating this trade.

[Joemailman]

Any regrets I had about the trade were erased when the Packers used the 5th they got to draft Jamon Meredith who many had a 2nd or 3rd round grade on. Whether TT was good or lucky, that worked out pretty well.

[Bretsky]

That's what I've been saying all along...but I use an "if" instead of when

TT must've really loved the guy so ya gotta have faith

Matthews looks a lot like Chad Greenway to me. What do you think Bretsky?

Matthews looks very smooth in those drills. I've read about his history and it's clear he's a great guy with a great attitude. So I'd agree he looks comparable to Greenway.

But the question that begs for an answer.........why wasn't he starting at the beginning of his senior year. Once he took over he looked awesome....but when you think about it that's a bit scary and a huge investment for a guy who didn't start the season as a starter.

I hope he's not the classic overachiever with a limited upside.

Right now I'm definitely a fan of his though

[Bretsky]

That was a good dance by Patler but I don't agree at all. Bill Bellichek traded two third round picks for two seconds next year. Not saying TT would ever do that....but those picks have values and I haven't found a draft/point chart that makes the deal seem close.

We gave up a 2nd and two thirds for a 1st and a 5th.

However, as I've said numerous times.....while I feel BB robbed us a bit....if Matthews turns into a stud it was still worth it and I commend TT for being aggressive.

So I assume you would disagree with Wolf's view on the value of compensatory picks then? I assume you think a third round compensatory pick should be treated in the same way as any other late third, early fourth round pick?

My comment was no dance. Just a reasoned opinion. The Jet's pick had value, but not as much as you think. Or, do you think every pick at the same position every year in every situation has nearly the same value? The Packers had 0 investment in the Jets pick they traded. Last year at this time they didn't have it, nor did they have the player they "gave up" to get it. He was retired. They got the pick for absolutely nothing, with even less investment than in a compensatory pick. Why not use it to take a shot at something?

I would agree that we have to consider any pick the Packers have to "return" to the Jets in evaluating this trade.

That would be correct; I don't think we should give a pick at a certain draft position less value because it was ours or we received it on a trade ..etc.
I'd treat it as equally important as the rest.

Every pick has value and part of that equation is the pick number and the year/depth for that year IMO.

[Patler]

Part 2. This was a very shallow and somewhat weak draft by most peoples honest account. I think TT did not have any players graded as worth 2nd or 3rd round picks so he used them to move up and pick a guy he did have graded higher than where he went. Probably the last guy of interest he had in this draft. I also think its the reason BB traded for picks next year. Not much to love in this draft as 2-3 round talent, solution, grab the one guy left you like and give up the 2-3 picks.

That's another key. If TT believed he would be drafting normally 4th or 5th round talent with those third round picks, or even low third round talent in a typical year, the picks didn't have nearly as much value to him as the "charts" might indicate.

[Joemailman]

During the season, I heard several people say the USC defense had the most talent they'd ever seen. I'm guessing they had a number of talented guys who couldn't break the starting lineup who will be stars next year.

[Bretsky]

Part 2. This was a very shallow and somewhat weak draft by most peoples honest account. I think TT did not have any players graded as worth 2nd or 3rd round picks so he used them to move up and pick a guy he did have graded higher than where he went. Probably the last guy of interest he had in this draft. I also think its the reason BB traded for picks next year. Not much to love in this draft as 2-3 round talent, solution, grab the one guy left you like and give up the 2-3 picks.

That's another key. If TT believed he would be drafting normally 4th or 5th round talent with those third round picks, or even low third round talent in a typical year, the picks didn't have nearly as much value to him as the "charts" might indicate.

I'm sure you saw this if you were watching the draft...but NFL Network interviewed New England and their view was the exact opposite of the above. They did not see value at the end of round one but saw a lot of value picks in rounds two to three so they based their strategey on that. I don't know who's right or wrong so I just take it as an average draft.

They ended up with 4 seconds, one third.......and packaged two thirds to get two extra seconds for next year

[Lurker64]

I'm sure you saw this if you were watching the draft...but NFL Network interviewed New England and their view was the exact opposite of the above. They did not see value at the end of round one but saw a lot of value picks in rounds two to three so they based their strategey on that. I don't know who's right or wrong so I just take it as an average draft.

You also have to realize that there is the possibility that Ted Thompson made Belichick an offer he couldn't refuse, and that the Patriots didn't actually believe that the best talent in this draft was in the middle rounds, but they lied and said as much in order to increase the perceived value of their middle round picks when they trade them away for picks in the next draft.

The Pats front office isn't exactly known for being truthful, after all.

[Patler]

But the question that begs for an answer.........why wasn't he starting at the beginning of his senior year. Once he took over he looked awesome....but when you think about it that's a bit scary and a huge investment for a guy who didn't start the season as a starter.

Didn't he have hand surgery and miss some of the off season stuff because of it?

[HarveyWallbangers]

You also have to realize that there is the possibility that Ted Thompson made Belichick an offer he couldn't refuse, and that the Patriots didn't actually believe that the best talent in this draft was in the middle rounds, but they lied and said as much in order to increase the perceived value of their middle round picks when they trade them away for picks in the next draft.

The Pats front office isn't exactly known for being truthful, after all.

This is what I believe. Bill's moves on day two would seem to contradict his statement also. He ended up trading two of his third round picks in 2009 for picks in 2010.