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Packers' weakness: Transition to 3-4

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  • Packers' weakness: Transition to 3-4

    Packers' weakness: Transition to 3-4

    May 19, 2009 12:00 PM

    Posted by Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson


    It drives me crazy when teams make a drastic switch in scheme because that is what the cool kids are doing.

    In this case, the cool kids are Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England and other successful 3-4 teams. Of course, I understand many teams are now led by men who come from flourishing teams that ran the 3-4, but that doesn't make it the right decision. I can see -- to some degree -- why Denver would make this switch, as its defense hasn't been successful in recent memory and the defensive players on its roster were inadequate for either an odd or even front.

    Kansas City bothers me because its most valuable front seven players -- Tamba Hali, Glenn Dorsey and Derrick Johnson -- all are far better fits for a traditional 4-3 than the 3-4. Doing that to Dorsey is especially sinister. However, it wasn't like Kansas City was a powerhouse on that side of the ball either.

    But the Green Bay switch really gets under my skin. Two years ago, the Packers had an upper-tier defense while running the 4-3. The strength of that team was a very deep, talented and versatile defensive line. The Packers rotated big men in, stayed fresh up front and put an awful lot of pressure on opposing offenses for four quarters. Last year, the defensive front was hit hard by injuries, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila was released and Corey Williams was dealt to the Browns before the season. Why not just bring in one or two more 4-3 linemen and stick with what worked?

    Turning Aaron Kampman, Green Bay's best front-seven player, into an outside linebacker is criminal. He was one of the better defensive ends in the league, and those guys don't grow on trees. Surely Kampman will not do it often, but dropping him into coverage with any regularity is a mistake. Although Cullen Jenkins, another very talented defensive lineman, is versatile enough to play end or tackle in the 4-3, he is a penetrator and asking him to hold the point as a 3-4 end could be a waste of what he does best.

    I am also not fond of A.J. Hawk, a prototypical 4-3 weakside linebacker, and Nick Barnett, a very successful run-and-hit middle linebacker in the old scheme, being the starting two inside guys in the new 3-4. Neither player is equipped to take on massive guards at the point of attack. I expect to see these two getting swallowed up far too often.

    I must admit that I expected the Packers' front seven to be even more ill-equipped to make this change at this point of the year than they are right now. I was shocked that B.J. Raji fell to Green Bay in the first round, and I feel Clay Matthews Jr. should fit the scheme well. Matthews is more linebacker than defensive end, while Kampman is the exact opposite. Those two could complement each other at outside linebacker rather well.

    That being said, rookies rarely adapt quickly to the 3-4, and although Matthews did play some of the scheme last year at USC, neither player has extensive experience running it.

    It should be noted that Dom Capers will be the one coordinating the change. Capers knows what will make the transformation more palatable.

    I still contend that the Packers would have been better off sticking with the 4-3 and still drafting Raji. Without making the change, Green Bay would not have had to uncharacteristically jump back into the first round to fill a position of need, and could have used the resources that it took to get Matthews to add to other areas of the team, such as offensive tackle or another 4-3 defensive end. Expect some growing pains on defense.

    Scouts Inc. watches games, breaks down film and studies football from all angles for ESPN.com.

  • #2
    Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?

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    • #3
      I think the problem last year was that Green Bay was weak up the middle which included DT, MLB, and SS. Saunders wasn't able to change enough to get any productivity out of the D. The reason for the change boiled down to 2 years ago they had a good defense but couldn't sustain it. Capers has shown that he can take some talented players and make them play at a higher level. Example Dolphin, Jags, and Texans.Reading between the lines, many think Green Bay has some talented D players. Caper will use the talent wisely...Saunders wasn't able.
      Been there done that!

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      • #4
        I can't say for sure whether the 3-4 will or won't work, but I put my faith in Capers and will give him a shot to see what he can make of the group before I write them off.

        He's also using events from April (the drafting of Raji) to pick apart the hiring of Capers in January. The Packers could have hired a 4-3 coordinator or retained Sanders but they had no way of knowing at the time they'd have a shot at Raji.

        Who were the big 4-3 DL in free agency this year? I remember Canty and Olshansky but they're both more of 3-4 guys.
        Go PACK

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        • #5
          Originally posted by retailguy
          Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?
          IMO, the problem was not that the 4-3 couldn't work. The problem was that the system or coordinator couldn't make best use of the players. They either had the players for the system or they didn't, pretty much end of the story.

          The premise of the article is off-base. The Packer's didn't just switch to the 3-4 for the sake of switching to the 3-4. They picked up the best D-coordinator they could, understanding that he uses the 3-4 defense.

          That being said, there is no gurantee that the 3-4 will solve all the problems. However, if the players are better suited for a 4-3, I am confident that they will run 4-3 or a hybrid 3-4. Basically, the article could be pretty much on point for all the assumptions regarding the 3-4 switch and the defense could still improve if they adjust the system for the players and not vice versa.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by retailguy
            Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?
            "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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            • #7
              nothing can be worse than last season and watching vanilla Bob rush the same 4 every time... I think this move will be better for Green Bay (even if we struggle in the first few weeks)....

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              • #8
                Interesting way of putting it - that we're switching because all the cool kids are doing it. It's worth mentioning that those cool kids are the ones winning championships. If defense wins championships, maybe being one of the cool kids really is cool.
                Chuck Norris doesn't cut his grass, he just stares at it and dares it to grow

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by retailguy
                  Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?
                  Before Thompson replaced Sherman as GM, everything was going to work, no matter what it was. Slowik, gonna work. Bates, gonna work. You became known as the koolaid man.

                  Now, everything the Packers do is not going to work. You avatar is not a symbol of you, but a symbol of what you used to be.



                  But I digress. . .

                  I disagree with this article. Capers has made this transition three times successfully in the past (and quickly). I have little reason to doubt him because he's proven.
                  Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                    Originally posted by retailguy
                    Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?
                    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...4146320.column
                    Yeah, I'd read this article. That's why I said the ESPN article is counter to some of the other stuff out there.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                      Originally posted by retailguy
                      Interesting analysis. Counter to many other opinions. What say you?
                      Before Thompson replaced Sherman as GM, everything was going to work, no matter what it was. Slowik, gonna work. Bates, gonna work. You became known as the koolaid man.

                      Now, everything the Packers do is not going to work. You avatar is not a symbol of you, but a symbol of what you used to be.

                      Where did I say what I thought? I thought the article was interesting. I thought it was worth a debate, or a thoughtful analysis. I purposely didn't express an opinion right off the bat because I wanted to avoid your remarks, and I didn't want to pollute other opinions.

                      Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                      But I digress. . .

                      I disagree with this article. Capers has made this transition three times successfully in the past (and quickly). I have little reason to doubt him because he's proven.
                      For the most part, I agree with this. What I question is whether or not the success rate will continue, or whether he'll "hit the wall" and have a failure.

                      Truthfully, I have no idea what is going to happen this time. Neither outcome would come as a shock to me.

                      I'm unsure that Kampman will make the transition. I'm unsure that Jenkins will last a whole season, with the differing responsibilities. I'm unsure that the rookies will step right in and perform. Those things could go either way. The answers to those situations will determine the "quick" success that you're predicting.

                      And, for the record, I was never a fan of Slowik. I knew that was going to fail, in the middle of the Carolina game when it looked like the defense was going to be all world.

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                      • #12
                        McCarthy interviewed 3 other D coordinators, 2 of which likely would have run a 4-3. While there seems to be some doubt whether there was a formal offer to Nolan, two of the guys offered the job would have run the uncool defense for M3. So that argument is bunk.

                        As for the switch, there will no doubt be some capable performers who are miscast in the 3-4. But one of Capers specialties is making this transition, so the players who will need to reconfigure their game will get good guidance.

                        But I think McCarthy's motivation for a change was revealed during the process, and it had nothing to do with pleasing Cheesehead TV or causing consternation for Bedard and Scouts Inc. He was rhapsodic about the 3-4 alignment against the run, which was a major problem for the Packers D last year.

                        McCarthy is a formation guy on offense and he clearly identified the previous 4-3's static alignment as one that was easy to target with the run. So each of his coordinator interviews offered him the opportunity to run a multiple front defense instead of the Bates/Sanders static D.

                        I would be concerned about an offensive minded head coach insisting on running a specific defensive scheme or game plan as its not his area of specialty. But Holmgren hired Fritz Shumur precisely because he used to give the 49ers fits when he was with the Rams. McCarthy clearly sees some of this with Capers as it pertains to run defense.

                        Since McCarthy clearly has a good offensive mind, I take this as a good starting point. To read any more into the motivation is stretching it beyond available facts.
                        Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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                        • #13
                          The main problem I have with the article is that they know very little about football and pretty much just glombed info from other articles to form an opinion.

                          Calling a 4-3 traditional is an easy way to spot it.
                          Originally posted by 3irty1
                          This is museum quality stupidity.

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                          • #14
                            Packer fans need to trust that Capers shall place players in winning positions within the scheme.

                            Bob Sanders was too rigid -- the antithesis of Capers.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Packers' weakness: Transition to 3-4

                              Originally posted by retailguy
                              put an awful lot of pressure on opposing offenses for four quarters.

                              I certainly do not remember this.


                              Nice opposing view article though, certainly made a few of us think a little bit. Even if it was "This column writer is an idiot..".


                              .
                              "Everyone's born anarchist and atheist until people start lying to them" ~ wise philosopher

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