Where do the Favre lovers stand on Favre being a Viking?

[pbmax]

I don't think Randy is fond enough of Brett to hug him throughout the game to keep him warm, so I am not convinced this would have made the difference.

But to change one variable on an equation as complex as a football team and claim there would be but two changes: Packers win the Giants game and the Super Bowl, is simplification that cannot be defended.

We have seen big ticket FA signings blow up on teams too frequently to make that assumption. The team went 13-3 and had home field when the Giants upset the Cowboys. That is enough of an outlier of a season that adding Moss could have improved the team and yet the result could be 12-4 and road games in the playoffs.

Its too big of an assumption. Like Logan Mankins, Randy Moss has yet to deliver a Super Bowl on his own.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Favre

Under the category of ironic:

.........And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point

............. Ironic is'nt it??????????????????????????????

What I consider ironic is a guy continuing to call other posters stupid after he posted this:

IHarrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick.

The famous "two rules" post - it never gets old.

[pbmax]

Re: Favre

Am I the only one who notices the correlation of the obsessive ripping Favre members of the forum and Teddy's strongest butt kissers being one in the same?

And no its not ironic. Because you take the worst posts of people who have decided to make it personal about Favre with the people who think it was time to move on from Favre.

Then there is a contingent that believe Thompson's plan is a sound one. You then conflate the groups. Because you disagree with both premises, this group becomes monolithic and homogenized. In order to justify posting frustration, you assign the worst qualities of certain members to the group as a whole.

So I take exception to you tired bit of bad logic, it is nothing but denigrating to people with whom you disagree.

As for myself in particular, I think Favre was done earlier this decade. He was committed less and less to the team and more and more to himself. I take exception to a player who cannot commit to offseason work, but wants to play offseason GM. I also think the mulitple and very public retirement considerations were power plays, an announcing of a foreboding future without a Hall of Fame QB. It was a threat to goad the team to abandon long term thinking. Sherman jumped like the rabbit in a magicians hat.

His later career play demonstrated that he did not want to take sacks or hits and instead made inexplicable throws early to protect himself. From a self-preservation standpoint, it makes perfect sense. But its not the way Championship QBs play. Favre used to get crushed during the championship runs, and as he got older, you saw that less and less. His time as a playoff winner was over by the time Thompson took the reigns.

Yes, I know many will disagree, and I will not call you Favre lovers to denigrate your counter arguments. I also will say none of this make Favre a terrible human being. It makes him perfectly normal. None of his demands were outrageous, but it inverts the power structure of a team and puts someone in a position of power who is concerned about one player, rather than the future of the franchise.

As for Thompson, his direction in general makes sense. I think he is smart and I trust him. But by withholding so much money from FA to focus on re-signing their own and keeping the cap healthy, he puts tremendous pressure on his drafting. And it is far from a foregone conclusion that he has drafted well enough.

[MJZiggy]

Amazing. PB, you've found the one angle to this whole mess that hasn't been beaten to a bloody dead pulp and it idea makes sense.

[Packnut]

Re: Favre

Under the category of ironic:

.........And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point

............. Ironic is'nt it??????????????????????????????

What I consider ironic is a guy continuing to call other posters stupid after he posted this:

IHarrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick.

The famous "two rules" post - it never gets old.

This coming from the "King of being wrong". Hell, you've never been right on anything but I admire you working hard to keep that track record going. It must take alot of time and effort into well, you being you!

[Packnut]

Re: Favre

Am I the only one who notices the correlation of the obsessive ripping Favre members of the forum and Teddy's strongest butt kissers being one in the same?

And no its not ironic. Because you take the worst posts of people who have decided to make it personal about Favre with the people who think it was time to move on from Favre.

Then there is a contingent that believe Thompson's plan is a sound one. You then conflate the groups. Because you disagree with both premises, this group becomes monolithic and homogenized. In order to justify posting frustration, you assign the worst qualities of certain members to the group as a whole.

So I take exception to you tired bit of bad logic, it is nothing but denigrating to people with whom you disagree.

As for myself in particular, I think Favre was done earlier this decade. He was committed less and less to the team and more and more to himself. I take exception to a player who cannot commit to offseason work, but wants to play offseason GM. I also think the mulitple and very public retirement considerations were power plays, an announcing of a foreboding future without a Hall of Fame QB. It was a threat to goad the team to abandon long term thinking. Sherman jumped like the rabbit in a magicians hat.

His later career play demonstrated that he did not want to take sacks or hits and instead made inexplicable throws early to protect himself. From a self-preservation standpoint, it makes perfect sense. But its not the way Championship QBs play. Favre used to get crushed during the championship runs, and as he got older, you saw that less and less. His time as a playoff winner was over by the time Thompson took the reigns.

Yes, I know many will disagree, and I will not call you Favre lovers to denigrate your counter arguments. I also will say none of this make Favre a terrible human being. It makes him perfectly normal. None of his demands were outrageous, but it inverts the power structure of a team and puts someone in a position of power who is concerned about one player, rather than the future of the franchise.

As for Thompson, his direction in general makes sense. I think he is smart and I trust him. But by withholding so much money from FA to focus on re-signing their own and keeping the cap healthy, he puts tremendous pressure on his drafting. And it is far from a foregone conclusion that he has drafted well enough.

Your taking what I posted and putting it into the context that you desire. My post was not meant for anyone thinking it was time for Favre to move on. In fact, the post was soley based on the 2007 season NOT AFTER.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Favre

Under the category of ironic:

.........And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point

............. Ironic is'nt it??????????????????????????????

What I consider ironic is a guy continuing to call other posters stupid after he posted this:

IHarrell is a bust plain and simple. He has contributed NOTHING as the 16th pick in the draft

Any way you slice it, that means BUST. Seriously, how many games was he a force at Tenn? Really, what everyone saw was potential. He flashed moments of domination, but in college that's normal. Truth is, he did'nt play enough for any COMPETENT evaluation to be formed. It is the reason the senior year is crucial.

There are two rules you do not dismiss as a GM. You can get lucky ignoring one or the other but Teddy violated both. He drafted an under-clasman and he drafted an injury riddled player going back to HS.

Once again, Reggie Nelson was sitting there and he was a NEED pick.

The famous "two rules" post - it never gets old.

This coming from the "King of being wrong". Hell, you've never been right on anything but I admire you working hard to keep that track record going. It must take alot of time and effort into well, you being you!

That's correct, I've never been right on anything.



Though I think I just contradicted myself.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Favre

So I take exception to you tired bit of bad logic, it is nothing but denigrating to people with whom you disagree.

......which by the way is the only reason he'll ever have to worry about re-reading his infamous "two rules" post.

[The Shadow]

Re: Favre

Under the category of ironic:

Am I the only one who notices the correlation of the obsessive ripping Favre members of the forum and Teddy's strongest butt kissers being one in the same?

Now the ironic part is this. These certain posters criticize Favre for not staying retired. Now Favre has admitted for quite a while that IF he won a SB, he could go out like Elway (which I believe is the driving force behind his wanting to play).

Now let's rewind to the 2007 season. 1.Had Thompson not made the boneheaded mistake of blowing the Moss trade, It is more than logical to believe that Moss would have made the difference in the championship game. That 5 wide set would have been un-stoppable in ANY kind of weather. And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point.

2. So, Favre would have won the SB and been gone. The venom these people have for him would be null and void. Yet, it was their hero (TT) that caused their outcry of criticism for Favre still hanging around. 3. Ironic is'nt it??????????????????????????????

1. Ahha! It's Thompson's fault! Moss' presence would have eliminated all Favre's decision-making problems.
2. Well, this is certainly a given!
3. No, it's terribly silly.

[ThunderDan]

Re: Favre

[quote="Packnut"]

Now let's rewind to the 2007 season. Had Thompson not made the boneheaded mistake of blowing the Moss trade, It is more than logical to believe that Moss would have made the difference in the championship game. That 5 wide set would have been un-stoppable in ANY kind of weather. And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point.

[\quote]


Other than making a broad statement of "anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point" how would Randy Moss helped in 2007???

We went 13-3 and lost in the NFC Championship game. Our WR sure didn't blow the championship game. Favre wasn't anywhere near the WRs on his incompletions. Our 5 WR set was damn effective as it was the entire year.

Does three or five unbelievable catches during the whole year win us the Superbowl in 2007? Does that stunt Jennings growth or Jones growth? Do we even have Jones on the team at this point?

[pbmax]

Re: Favre

Now Favre has admitted for quite a while that IF he won a SB, he could go out like Elway (which I believe is the driving force behind his wanting to play).

I also believe Favre has discussed this possibility and has not said he would emulate Elway and walk out on top. If I recall the interview I saw, he covered all four corners of this, and came to a general conclusion that one (SB win) would not be linked to another (retire).

If you can find a different statement, I am open to a different interpretation, but I am not yet convinced a Super Bowl would be the end of his career in 2007.

[hoosier]

Amazing. PB, you've found the one angle to this whole mess that hasn't been beaten to a bloody dead pulp and it idea makes sense.

x2. Nice post, PB.

[woodbuck27]

Re: Favre

Under the category of ironic:

Am I the only one who notices the correlation of the obsessive ripping Favre members of the forum and Teddy's strongest butt kissers being one in the same?

Now the ironic part is this. These certain posters criticize Favre for not staying retired. Now Favre has admitted for quite a while that IF he won a SB, he could go out like Elway (which I believe is the driving force behind his wanting to play).

Now let's rewind to the 2007 season. Had Thompson not made the boneheaded mistake of blowing the Moss trade, It is more than logical to believe that Moss would have made the difference in the championship game. That 5 wide set would have been un-stoppable in ANY kind of weather. And please spare me the stupid comments about Moss not making a difference. Anyone with ANY understanding of an offense would concede my point.

So, Favre would have won the SB and been gone. The venom these people have for him would be null and void. Yet, it was their hero (TT) that caused their outcry of criticism for Favre still hanging around. Ironic is'nt it??????????????????????????????

Can't wait to read the critique on this post.

PACKERS!

[woodbuck27]

'' by withholding so much money from FA to focus on re-signing their own and keeping the cap healthy, he puts tremendous pressure on his drafting. And it is far from a foregone conclusion that he has drafted well enough. '' pbmax

Yes a fair observation pbmax. TT fans want to make him into some draft guru and the facts in Green Bay leave that very much up in the air.

I was annoyed that TT fell asleep on Randy Moss. What could have been?

The rest?

I cannot disagree with the best part of your post pbmax. It was time for Favre to go. Will that decision come back to bite TT? We'll see this season if Favre joins the Vikings and we measure this teams progress in games Vs the Packers and overall in the NFCN, and possible playoff birth results.

Bottom line and for the short and long term. It really comes back to TT's having to move on so making that decision in itself was hard enough and his decision and /or the Packer managements. So right.

Packers!

[Scott Campbell]

It was time for Favre to go. Will that decision come back to bite TT?

Ted's decisions on when to part with aging vets have been spot on. Henderson, Green and now Favre.