OTA analysis

[Fritz]

I actually enjoyed that JSO article - one of the better pieces from them, even if you don't agree with all of their analysis.

I do hope Brohm picks it up in training camp and then next training camp is even better - if it's true he doesn't fit with a west coast offense, then making him look like a real NFL QB next summer will be job #1 - so the Pack can trade him and maybe get more than a second for him - maybe a couple of seconds, like someone paid for that Matt Schaub guy a couple years ago.

[pbmax]

Vince, Rodgers "deprogramming" was probably no more complex than other system quarterbacks coming out of college, whether they played for Spurrier, Leach, Hal Mumme or Joe Tiller. And most drafted QBs fail to become starters in the NFL.

McCarthy discussed the position Rodgers held the ball, said he wanted it to come down lower, and described his plan as "to do nothing and let it come down naturally."

All QBs need to learn new footwork if they are changing systems and the systems require new timing/different routes.

But Tedford's system is quite complex, its not a single read system as I have seen it described. I think the likelihood is that Tedford has made some marginal 1st day NFL talents at QB look amazing in college, which pumps up their draft position.

This is not to minimize the adjustment Rodgers had to make, but by his second year of preseason as someone pointed out, he had made a good adjustment. I think the thing that goes missing in discussing Rodgers, is total number of starts in Div I. If you have a QB with that talent, but is coming out early or did not start until late, one way to overcome a relative lack of starting experience is to park them on the bench, like Rodgers did for three years. Not all teams have Favre ahead of Mr. Draftee, but he clearly benefited from the time to learn and the lack of pressure.

[vince]

Perhaps you're right pb, although it definitely takes time to adjust mechanics. One need only to look at other Tedford quarterbacks to see the challenges inherent in converting to the NFL from this system. I agree that the other Tedford qb's may not have had all the talent, but Boller had a rocket arm, as did Akili Smith.

His deprogramming from that system goes a long way toward explaining his learning curve when he first entered the league. Your point about number of starts at the Div. 1 level is also valid. Both of those challenges have often been overlooked when comparing Rodgers' start and progression to other (non-Tedford) QB's in the league.

[Scott Campbell]

How bout Alex Smith having to unlearn Urban Meyer's spread option?

[vince]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Scott.

Many "system" quarterbacks have failed. Relearning new mechanics, particularly with ball positioning, is a challenge that takes time to overcome. It changes the throwing motion and the ability to throw on the move, both of which affect accuracy. When combined with the other challenges new quarterbacks face at the same time, as well as expectations of immediate results and the ultimate level of competition against which it all needs to be overcome. Historically, it has made it too difficult for most of them.

[rbaloha1]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Scott.

Many "system" quarterbacks have failed. Relearning new mechanics, particularly with ball positioning, is a challenge that takes time to overcome. When combined with the other challenges new quarterbacks face at the same time, as well as expectations of immediate results and the ultimate level of competition against which it all needs to be overcome. Historically, it has made it too difficult for most of them.

All college qb play in a system. The question is how it translates to the NFL.

Tedford's system is one read down field. If covered then check down. This system allowed qbs with impressive physical attributes (Dilfer, Smith and Boller) appear to be NFL qbs. However the requires qbs to go through progressions which Tedford qbs failed. Of course AR is the exception.

In college ran an NFL offense. Brohm's transition should have been smoother. IMO Brohm's problems is holding the ball too long and surprisingly poor mechanics.

Stafford reminds of Tedford bust qbs -- big, strong arm and the inability to go thru progressions. Recall at Georgia defenses had to honor Moreno's running first. Stafford locked into one big athletically gifted receiver and could never lead a Georgia team to victory in the last 2 minutes.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Scott.

Many "system" quarterbacks have failed. Relearning new mechanics, particularly with ball positioning, is a challenge that takes time to overcome. It changes the throwing motion and the ability to throw on the move, both of which affect accuracy. When combined with the other challenges new quarterbacks face at the same time, as well as expectations of immediate results and the ultimate level of competition against which it all needs to be overcome. Historically, it has made it too difficult for most of them.

I guess I'm saying that I can't fault a system QB for doing what his coach asks him to do as long as he's successful.

[vince]

All college qb play in a system. The question is how it translates to the NFL.

Tedford's system is one read down field. If covered then check down. This system allowed qbs with impressive physical attributes (Dilfer, Smith and Boller) appear to be NFL qbs. However the requires qbs to go through progressions which Tedford qbs failed. Of course AR is the exception.

In college ran an NFL offense. Brohm's transition should have been smoother. IMO Brohm's problems is holding the ball too long and surprisingly poor mechanics.

Stafford reminds of Tedford bust qbs -- big, strong arm and the inability to go thru progressions. Recall at Georgia defenses had to honor Moreno's running first. Stafford locked into one big athletically gifted receiver and could never lead a Georgia team to victory in the last 2 minutes.

I'm obviously not a QB coach, but I attribute Brohm's "holding on to the ball too long" to being a bit slower with his footwork and not being ready to release the ball quick enough to fit the rhythm of the short-passing game offense. Then he's behind a beat with his progressions from there and never gets "caught up." If that's right, it suggests he's fundamentally not well suited for the West Coast system.

Here's a video of Brohm highlights from college, and almost all of his most successful plays (exept one screen and one 5-10 yard crossing route, were slow-developing, downfield throws. The Packers obviously throw the ball downfield, but they use the short passing game to set up the homerun shots rather than the other way around, which Brohm seems more suited to. He steps up in the pocket a couple times for successful plays downfield and he ran up the middle once, and he had one semi-rollout, but he's basically a shotgun, 7-step drop, vertical passing guy IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxC2WrG8cuQ

That gets back to my point about comparisons to Rodgers. While it took time for him to adjust his game, he has the fundamental skills (footspeed and arm), intelligence and work ethic to adjust and improve more than others. Sure they all have "adjustments" to make, but Rodgers had at least as much as anyone, which explains his poor performance in his first year. Yet Rodgers' poor first year is used to compare with other QB's for a variety of reasons that sometimes make for poor comparisons IMO.

[wist43]

Everyone seems to think Jeremey Thompson can play OLB... two, 270 lbs former DE OLB's??? Offensive Coord's will be matching those guys up in coverage all day. Add to that two pedestrian, non-playmaking ILB's???

I wanted the switcfh to the 3-4, and I expect it to be a mess for a while... but man, that LB'ing corp is some kind of ugly. Hopefully Capers can work some magic with the scheme.

[Gunakor]

Everyone seems to think Jeremey Thompson can play OLB... two, 270 lbs former DE OLB's??? Offensive Coord's will be matching those guys up in coverage all day. Add to that two pedestrian, non-playmaking ILB's???

I wanted the switcfh to the 3-4, and I expect it to be a mess for a while... but man, that LB'ing corp is some kind of ugly. Hopefully Capers can work some magic with the scheme.

When Thompson was drafted, the complaint against him was that he was too light to play DE in the NFL. Now he's too heavy to play OLB in the NFL. Exactly what is this guy then, if not a DE OR an OLB?

[wist43]

Everyone seems to think Jeremey Thompson can play OLB... two, 270 lbs former DE OLB's??? Offensive Coord's will be matching those guys up in coverage all day. Add to that two pedestrian, non-playmaking ILB's???

I wanted the switcfh to the 3-4, and I expect it to be a mess for a while... but man, that LB'ing corp is some kind of ugly. Hopefully Capers can work some magic with the scheme.

When Thompson was drafted, the complaint against him was that he was too light to play DE in the NFL. Now he's too heavy to play OLB in the NFL. Exactly what is this guy then, if not a DE OR an OLB?

I've always seen him as a 4-3 DE... in fact, I see a lot of Kampman in him. Thought he had upside as a 4-3 End.

Kampman doesn't fit a 3-4 either... as I've said, hence my contention we'll be seeing a lot more 4-3 than advertised.

[Lurker64]

I've always seen him as a 4-3 DE... in fact, I see a lot of Kampman in him. Thought he had upside as a 4-3 End.

I'm wondering why you say this, since Jeremy Thompson's role at Wake Forest was essentially the same as Clay Matthews role at USC. They were guys who, with a hand up or down, rushed the passer and/or dropped into coverage.

Jeremy Thompson's role in college was a lot closer to 3-4 OLB than it was 4-3 DE. Physically he might look more like Aaron Kampman than Clay Matthews, but his football training is much more OLB than DE.

[Joemailman]

http://www.packerupdate.com/

Glad to see these guys are reporting again. Some interesting comments on Chad Clifton, Brian Brohm, Brett Swain and Jamon Meredith.

[Lurker64]

http://www.packerupdate.com/

Glad to see these guys are reporting again. Some interesting comments on Chad Clifton, Brian Brohm, Brett Swain and Jamon Meredith.

It's also interesting to learn that Colledge is their #2 priority in the offseason, not that it's a bad move on their part.

[Joemailman]

I would have expected that. He's now their best offensive lineman, and may be their LT of the future if Meredith doesn't work out. I imagine TT will take more of a wait and see approach with the defensive guys.