Better NFL QB Rankings

[cpk1994]

Re: Better NFL QB Rankings

There is one conspicuous name missing from that list.

Rex Grossman?

I was gonna say Vince Young.

[hoosier]

Am I the only pone who doesn't think Brees is a star? He put's up massive numbers, but he's also chucking the ball a lot in an offense scheme designed to put up big yardage. The QB is supposed to be the guy who has the biggest impact on wins and losses.

2003 : 4-12
2004 : 12-4 (0-1 post season)
2005 : 9-7
2006 : 10-6 (1-1 post season)
2007 : 7-9
2008 : 7-9

Career : 49 - 47 with a 1-2 post season record

Not spectacular by any means. He puts up huge numbers because NO can't run, not because he is a game changer imo. He's a top 10 QB, maybe even top 5, but he's not anywhere near the same league as Manning or Brady, and maybe even in the 3rd tier down.

It sounds like you might have an unusual definition of what does and waht doesn't count as a star. I think most people look at what BRees has done consistently over the last five years and acknowledge that he's one of the top three QBs in the league. The fact that he hasn't won any SBs might keep people from considering him among the very best of the best, and Peyton Manning suffered a similar stigma until the Colts won in 2007. The fact that Brees's team had back to back 7-9 seasons could be explained by a lot of factors that have nothing to do with QB play: injuries, bad defense, bad coaching, etc. What I find most convincing about Brees, and what makes him a "star" in my view, is that he has done it for five years in a row while playing in two very different systems. The argument that he's purely the product of a system or that his gaudy stats come about because of the teams deficiencies in other areas--I don't think that holds any water when you look at what he did in SD.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yes, the NO offense is based on the pass and thus Brees will have big yardage, however there is something to be said for having a defense that helps out that W-L record.

Defense rank in pts given up for those yrs you mentioned, I used the SD teams for 03-05 to match the example given above for the records:

2003 - 31 (SD)
2004 - 11 (SD)
2005 - 13 (SD)
2006 - 13
2007 - 25
2008 - 26

I notice that the seasons Brees had a defense that was in the top half of pts given up, they had winning seasons but when the defense was in the bottom 8 or lower, they did not have winning seasons.

To me, this shows more that defense plays a bigger factor in a season's record than just the play of the QB. Yes, a QB is a very important position but to lay a W-L record solely on him is a fallacious one.

[falco]

I don't think anyone could complain about having Brees as their QB. I don't think he's just "putting up big numbers" - it's not like the guy is falling apart in the clutch or anything. He just needs a better D behind him.

[Partial]

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.

The Pats have been a top 10 team in pts given up the past 3 years and the Colts have been ranked 7, 1, 21, 2 the last 4 seasons with 2006 the year when Sanders missed half the season I believe. Those two teams are examples of a perfect marriage of outstanding offenses and defenses. They each have great coaching staffs and GMs who listen to them when constructing the teams to bring in who will fit in best.

[Bretsky]

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.

First off, BB is the best coach hands down in the NFL. They also have a great front office.

Colts front office has always been strong, as has their coaching

And keep in mind they have the two best QB's in the game; that can make you competitive every year whether they win it all or not

[Partial]

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.

First off, BB is the best coach hands down in the NFL. They also have a great front office.

Colts front office has always been strong, as has their coaching

And keep in mind they have the two best QB's in the game; that can make you competitive every year whether they win it all or not

Agreed, but if Brees is lumped right in there with them, one has to assume the difference is the management.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

anybody who asks questions about the management of the Pats and Indy vs. NO pretty much has no clue.

[Bretsky]

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.

First off, BB is the best coach hands down in the NFL. They also have a great front office.

Colts front office has always been strong, as has their coaching

And keep in mind they have the two best QB's in the game; that can make you competitive every year whether they win it all or not

Agreed, but if Brees is lumped right in there with them, one has to assume the difference is the management.

I think that was a fantasy football analysis; Brees gets lumped in there due to their explosive offense and a stellar last year. I don't think many would try to lump the franchises together or argue Brees is better than Brady or Manning

[woodbuck27]

anybody who asks questions about the management of the Pats and Indy vs. NO pretty much has no clue.

Partials last post doesn't imply that Ty.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

anybody who asks questions about the management of the Pats and Indy vs. NO pretty much has no clue.

Partials last post doesn't imply that Ty.

It begs the question, though, of if the Colts and Pats just have infinitely better GMs constructing their team(defense) or what, exactly, because those two teams seem to be annually competitive, where as SD and NO, despite having the QB put up as big if not bigger numbers than Manning and Brady, are not.