Why the negativity?

[sharpe1027]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Then came along Brett Favre and the laughing and embarrassment stopped. Yes, he was'nt alone in the Packer resurgence. There was Wolf, Holmgren and Reggie ect., but Favre was the biggest reason. He gave Packer fans back their team pride.

So you guys throw all that away because what, he hurt your feelings? He did'nt stay retired? Man, it's freakin ludicrous! You guys are like a person who gets divorced. They end up so bitter cause the marrige ended, that they toss out all the good things and end up concentrating on the negative stuff. It's very sad.

Hey, everyone is entittled to their own opinion, I get that. I also get just cause I like someone does'nt mean the rest of the world has to feel what I feel. But you guys have to have some understanding, why, to a few of us, you look like nothing but clowns.

Especially as Packer fans, to rip ANYONE who has the nickname " Bear Killer" is downright STUPID!

What you say about Favre is generally true. That doesn't mean that the reasons for being pissed at Favre are any less true.

Favre gained our respect because of the things he did for the Packers organization. He has begun to lose it because of the things he has done to the Packers team, mostly for personal reasons.

If your best friend has a long history of standing behind you and you behind him, he deserves your respect. That doesn't mean that if he has an affair with your wife that you are "STUPID!" to be mad at him.

[bobblehead]

It can't be helped it is much like politics the dumbest people in this world are far right and their buddies on the far left it is the sane people in the middle that make sense most of the time. I am a fulltime bartender at two sports bars and it cracks me up everyday when one guy wants Favre to break his "fucking" legs and he shouldn't be in the Packer Hall of Fame blah blah, then the next guy wants him to stick it to TT but he really is a "Packer Fan" and he likes the Pack first but he hopes Favre gets another SB blah blah. Me I have soul searched on this one and was mad at Brett at first then realized my emotions were drained when TT came to town. I just don't give a fuck either way I won't root for him or against him or as some on the right would say let God decide and some on the left would say let Karma decide my question is will they be OK with the outcome? Me I don't give a shit either way.

PRS....please keep your opinions on the stupidity of the far left or the far right in the FYI room where I will feel more inclined to educate you on the damage the wishy washy just wanna get along please don't point out how I can't formulate an argument so I reside in the middle types have done.

I was relating real life to football people like you who see things only in black or white are the real problem in america. I am not wishsy washy no one can be right all the time, I simply have the brain cells to make informed choices based on common sense not emotion. Favre has done many things wrong as has TT, in your world I guess kill 'em both. As far as formulating an argument that is what stupid people do to make themselves feel like they are right, anyone can "formulate" doesn't mean the math is right.

Right...but your post begged a response and this isn't the place for that discussion. I love to talk politics and would love to probe this topic furher, but this isn't the place to bring it up. I am trying to restrain bringing politics into the packer area, but damn...you are making it hard for me.

BF brought this entirely on himself. That is my opinion. You are entitled to tell me I'm wrong, no problem, but point out why. Trying to play the "i'm in the middle game' because its the easy way out and somehow, in your mind, makes you seem intelligent. Tell me what exactly you think TT did wrong instead of blanket statements like "done many things wrong as has TT".

to further quote you: formulating an argument is what stupid people do?? Really, I thought stupid people declared both sides to blame and then said if you argue with me or formulate a reason why I am wrong you are stupid even though I didn't provide any evidence at all.

Why is TT wrong in how he handled this? What has he done wrong....and don't say drafting harrell #16 cuz you know that isn't what I'm talking about.

[cheesner]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Then came along Brett Favre and the laughing and embarrassment stopped. Yes, he was'nt alone in the Packer resurgence. There was Wolf, Holmgren and Reggie ect., but Favre was the biggest reason. He gave Packer fans back their team pride.

So you guys throw all that away because what, he hurt your feelings? He did'nt stay retired? Man, it's freakin ludicrous! You guys are like a person who gets divorced. They end up so bitter cause the marrige ended, that they toss out all the good things and end up concentrating on the negative stuff. It's very sad.

Hey, everyone is entittled to their own opinion, I get that. I also get just cause I like someone does'nt mean the rest of the world has to feel what I feel. But you guys have to have some understanding, why, to a few of us, you look like nothing but clowns.

Especially as Packer fans, to rip ANYONE who has the nickname " Bear Killer" is downright STUPID!

What you say about Favre is generally true. That doesn't mean that the reasons for being pissed at Favre are any less true.

Favre gained our respect because of the things he did for the Packers organization. He has begun to lose it because of the things he has done to the Packers team, mostly for personal reasons.

If your best friend has a long history of standing behind you and you behind him, he deserves your respect. That doesn't mean that if he has an affair with your wife that you are "STUPID!" to be mad at him.

Good response.

It is the foolish person that elevates their image of someone to such an extreme - that they just ignore any contrary evidence.

[The Shadow]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Then came along Brett Favre and the laughing and embarrassment stopped. Yes, he was'nt alone in the Packer resurgence. There was Wolf, Holmgren and Reggie ect., but Favre was the biggest reason. He gave Packer fans back their team pride.

So you guys throw all that away because what, he hurt your feelings? He did'nt stay retired? Man, it's freakin ludicrous! You guys are like a person who gets divorced. They end up so bitter cause the marrige ended, that they toss out all the good things and end up concentrating on the negative stuff. It's very sad.

Hey, everyone is entittled to their own opinion, I get that. I also get just cause I like someone does'nt mean the rest of the world has to feel what I feel. But you guys have to have some understanding, why, to a few of us, you look like nothing but clowns.

Especially as Packer fans, to rip ANYONE who has the nickname " Bear Killer" is downright STUPID!

Um, that certainly isn't exactly true. Off the top of my head, I remember the St. Louis game when his receivers unexpectedly ran the wrong routes 6 times, the Philly game where an unexpected wind gust forced his perfect pass to drift into the arms of an enemy safety, the loss to the Giants where McCarthy's terrible call required him to throw a wounded duck to a CB, and Holmgren's horrible Super Bowl gameplan which forced him to lose to a less talented team.
And there are many more embarrassing moments to go along with the good ones.

[Fritz]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Nothing like overstating reality in an attempt to make a point.

Scott Hunter played in only aboutt 35 games for the Packers, and had about 450 attempts.
Rich Campbell played in only a handful of games.
Jerry Tagge played in a few more than Campbell, and had about 300 attempts.

On the other hand, Lynn Dickey was the starter for 8 of those years (1976, 1977 and 1980-1985), payed over 100 games and had about 3,000 attempts. QB was not the problem when Dickey was there. He racked up points and yardage with ease.

Majkowski was there from 1988-1992, but was injured off and on in 1990 and 1991, before getting hurt again and giving way to Favre in 1992. He played in 36 of the games of the '80s, and about as many in the 1990s. Even earned some league honors. Again, QB was not the problem when Majkowski played.

When Dickey was out in 1978 and 1979, David Whitehurst played. While Whitehurst was not a great QB by any stretch of the imagination, the team had a lot bigger problems than the play of Whitehurst.

I would enjoy watching the tapes of Dickey. I would enjoy watching the tapes of Majkowski. Both were very good QBs. I wouldn't even mind watching Whitehurst again.

The lean years for QBs in Green Bay were really only before Dickey came in 1976 and for one year (1986) between Dickey and Majkowski.

All in all the Packers have had capable QBs for the most part since 1976. They struggled when Majkowski was hurt, but most teams do when their starter is out.

For reasons not entirely clear to me, Lynn Dickey is one of my all-time favorite Packers. I looked up his numbers a few months ago, and while they're not stunning, he had some weapons around him (Lofton/Jefferson) and that offense could put up points. Unfortunately, the defense was about as stout as a ninety-year-old man's penis, pre-Viagra.

And Majkowski was adored in Green Bay until he was hurt - the "Magik Man," right?

Favre was a wonderful quarterback and a charistmatic person. He was fantastic to watch, though frustrating as well. But he would've been only thought of as a little better than Dickey or Majkowski in the team's annals if he hadn't had the talent around him - both sides of the ball - that he did for a stretch of time.

In football, if you are very talented but play on a bad team for most or all of your career, you get some recognition but ultimately you get lost in the wash. It's not like baseball, where an individual can stand out more.

[Packman_26]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Then came along Brett Favre and the laughing and embarrassment stopped. Yes, he was'nt alone in the Packer resurgence. There was Wolf, Holmgren and Reggie ect., but Favre was the biggest reason. He gave Packer fans back their team pride.

So you guys throw all that away because what, he hurt your feelings? He did'nt stay retired? Man, it's freakin ludicrous! You guys are like a person who gets divorced. They end up so bitter cause the marrige ended, that they toss out all the good things and end up concentrating on the negative stuff. It's very sad.

Hey, everyone is entittled to their own opinion, I get that. I also get just cause I like someone does'nt mean the rest of the world has to feel what I feel. But you guys have to have some understanding, why, to a few of us, you look like nothing but clowns.

Especially as Packer fans, to rip ANYONE who has the nickname " Bear Killer" is downright STUPID!

I think you might actually have a point, but you are overgeneralizing. Some people have begun to discount what Favre did as a Packer after all of this. You right in that you shouldn't let his actions now take away from what he accomplished.
But there is another type of "Favre Hater", the ones that feel like they've been tricked. Favre was the guy that some of us thought wasn't like all of the "me first" athletes. We held him to a higher standard. When we saw what he really is, it tarnished his mystique.

[ThunderDan]

Re: Favre

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

I think you forgot about Tampa Bay and Seattle.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Favre

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

I think you forgot about Tampa Bay and Seattle.

Pikers, all three.

New Orleans was the biggest joke...even their fans were wearing bags over their heads. "ain'ts."

[mraynrand]

Re: Favre

Like I've stated here before. Every one of you who keep ripping Favre should be locked up in a room and forced to watch countless hours of game tape with clowns like Hunter, Campbell, Tagee, and all the other bozo's who QB'ed in the 70's and 80's.

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

Nothing like overstating reality in an attempt to make a point.

Scott Hunter played in only aboutt 35 games for the Packers, and had about 450 attempts.
Rich Campbell played in only a handful of games.
Jerry Tagge played in a few more than Campbell, and had about 300 attempts.

On the other hand, Lynn Dickey was the starter for 8 of those years (1976, 1977 and 1980-1985), payed over 100 games and had about 3,000 attempts. QB was not the problem when Dickey was there. He racked up points and yardage with ease.

Majkowski was there from 1988-1992, but was injured off and on in 1990 and 1991, before getting hurt again and giving way to Favre in 1992. He played in 36 of the games of the '80s, and about as many in the 1990s. Even earned some league honors. Again, QB was not the problem when Majkowski played.

When Dickey was out in 1978 and 1979, David Whitehurst played. While Whitehurst was not a great QB by any stretch of the imagination, the team had a lot bigger problems than the play of Whitehurst.

I would enjoy watching the tapes of Dickey. I would enjoy watching the tapes of Majkowski. Both were very good QBs. I wouldn't even mind watching Whitehurst again.

The lean years for QBs in Green Bay were really only before Dickey came in 1976 and for one year (1986) between Dickey and Majkowski.

All in all the Packers have had capable QBs for the most part since 1976. They struggled when Majkowski was hurt, but most teams do when their starter is out.

1984 was a drop off for Dickey, but the offense and Dickey was OK. '85 he was hurt half the time and noodle arm 'bounce pass' Jim Zorn even started. '87 and '88 were pretty damn lean too. Majkowski was green in '87 and just OK in '88. That's half a decade of marginal or below average play at the QB position.

[Zool]

Re: Favre

That's half a decade of marginal or below average play at the QB position.

The Vikings and Bears would like to compare notes.

[Patler]

Re: Favre

1984 was a drop off for Dickey, but the offense and Dickey was OK. '85 he was hurt half the time and noodle arm 'bounce pass' Jim Zorn even started. '87 and '88 were pretty damn lean too. Majkowski was green in '87 and just OK in '88. That's half a decade of marginal or below average play at the QB position.

Sure, when Dickey was hurt and didn't play the backups struggled, but that's not surprising. The Packers QB position was in good hands whenever Dickey took the field.

Majkowski was green in '87 and OK in '88 not unlike Favre in '92 and '93. Overall the teams of '92 and '93 were better than '87 and '88, so it didn't matter quite as much. I don't mind having a young QB and watching him grow. Once Majkowski got the job away from Wright, the team was in fine hands QB-wise. I could never understand the prolonged period of jumping back and forth between Wright and Majkowski.

I don't consider any of the Dickey years or the Majkowski years to be marginal or below average QB wise, even when Majkowski was growing into the job. That is part of the sport. I never felt like they needed to find another QB, they just needed to keep Dickey alive, and commit to Majkowski and forget Wright. Truth be told, Favre wasn't the Favre he became right from the start either. None of them are.

[mraynrand]

Re: Favre

I don't consider any of the Dickey years or the Majkowski years to be marginal or below average QB wise, even when Majkowski was growing into the job. That is part of the sport.

You make some good observation - OK. I will just say that I disagree about the overall quality at the QB position. The QB play overall in '85 and '88 was below average, and it was abysmal 86 and 87. I didn't get to see a number of games in '92 and '93 so I can't speak to whether 'learning Favre' was better than 'learning Majkowski.' And to me it doesn't mean much to the point of whether the QBing was good, bad or marginal 85-88.

[ThunderDan]

Re: Favre

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

I think you forgot about Tampa Bay and Seattle.

Pikers, all three.

New Orleans was the biggest joke...even their fans were wearing bags over their heads. "ain'ts."

I think its a toss up. Tampa Bay lost 26 games in a row. Of course they were the more recent expansion team.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Favre

Also, you guys are very selfish. Anyone of you who lived through that horror show should stop and think what it was like to be totally embarrassed for those of us who DID NOT LIVE IN WISCONSIN. You guys have NO FREAKIN IDEA how bad it was. The Packers were the biggest joke in the NFL for 2 decades. And for those of you who are younger and escaped that hell, stop and imagine what it would be like to be laughed at and ridiculed cause your team sucked so bad for so long.

I think you forgot about Tampa Bay and Seattle.

Pikers, all three.

New Orleans was the biggest joke...even their fans were wearing bags over their heads. "ain'ts."

I think its a toss up. Tampa Bay lost 26 games in a row. Of course they were the more recent expansion team.

Never wore bags!!!

[Fritz]

I would be remiss if I did not mention those Detroit Lions.

Folks here are starting to look back upon the Wayne Fontes era rather fondly...one reallyt good year - '92, I think? - where they did well until they got absolutely thumped by the 'Skins. They had another playoff year where Lomas Brown guaranteed a win against Philly, and the Leos got beaten to a pulp. Fontes's overall record is, I think, right around .500, but he's the best head coach they've had since Joe Schmidt, or maybe Don McCaffrey, who died on the job.

The Lions sucked in the 70's and the 80's, were decent for a period in the 90's, and have now fallen off a cliff.