Shaun Alexander: Hero to Zero

[mraynrand]

You can't compare college football of the 50s to the modern day. Hell, Marquette had a team.

P.S. Aren't you forgetting angelo coia

Don't get ya Ty. Who is comparing college ball from the 50's to anything?

Yeah, I forgetting Coia all to hell and back. & I'm old enough to remember him. But I don't.

If TJ is on the list, OK. Angelo Coia had a mediocre NFL career.

People compare athletes between generations all the time. Typically, the comparison is relative to other players in the same era. For example, Roger Craig and LT would easily outplay Horning if pulled from their time-stream at their respective peak performing years and placed in the same modern NFL training camp. But measured within their respective eras, they are comparable. That's the frame of reference people normally use when making comparisons.

Angelo Coia is a household name - if your household is an online repository of NFL statistics.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Stump could really tote the rock..you gotta be pretty darn special to make the NFL from The Citadel.

Then how do you explain Travis Jervey?

NFL loves white running backs...or the hope that there could be a decent one.

Travis couldn't hold Stump's jock.

986 att, 4649 yards, 4.7 ypc. 209 rec, 1955 yards, 9.4 y/r.

punt: 156, 1377, 8.8. Ret: 177, 4007, 22.6

Jervey: 503 yards rushing. 'nuff said.

There were 3 Citadel players who had decent NFL careers.

Stump, TJ, and Paul Maguire.

Travis played for 9 years for 3 teams and kept a job based on "white speed" and potential. That, and he was an ST stud. Jervey gained more yards returning punts than he did rushing from the LOS. And he really wasn't a punt returner.

You can't compare college football of the 50s to the modern day. Hell, Marquette had a team.

P.S. Aren't you forgetting angelo coia

Don't get ya Ty. Who is comparing college ball from the 50's to anything?

Yeah, I forgetting Coia all to hell and back. & I'm old enough to remember him. But I don't.

If TJ is on the list, OK. Angelo Coia had a mediocre NFL career.

Ty was merely saying that making the NFL from Citadel in the modern era as Stump did is a totally different accomplishment than doing so from the 50s or before. That is all.

The original point of my post was that Stump was a hella good player making it from Citadel.

[Patler]

Stump could really tote the rock..you gotta be pretty darn special to make the NFL from The Citadel.

Then how do you explain Travis Jervey?

NFL loves white running backs...or the hope that there could be a decent one.

Travis couldn't hold Stump's jock.

986 att, 4649 yards, 4.7 ypc. 209 rec, 1955 yards, 9.4 y/r.

punt: 156, 1377, 8.8. Ret: 177, 4007, 22.6

Jervey: 503 yards rushing. 'nuff said.

There were 3 Citadel players who had decent NFL careers.

Stump, TJ, and Paul Maguire.

Travis played for 9 years for 3 teams and kept a job based on "white speed" and potential. That, and he was an ST stud. Jervey gained more yards returning punts than he did rushing from the LOS. And he really wasn't a punt returner.

You can't compare college football of the 50s to the modern day. Hell, Marquette had a team.

P.S. Aren't you forgetting angelo coia

Don't get ya Ty. Who is comparing college ball from the 50's to anything?

Yeah, I forgetting Coia all to hell and back. & I'm old enough to remember him. But I don't.

If TJ is on the list, OK. Angelo Coia had a mediocre NFL career.

Ty was merely saying that making the NFL from Citadel in the modern era as Stump did is a totally different accomplishment than doing so from the 50s or before. That is all.

The original point of my post was that Stump was a hella good player making it from Citadel.

Yes, it was much harder to make a team in the 50's and '60s than now. Fewer than half as many teams, rosters of 36-40 players. There are 3x to 4x as many NFL players now as then.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Stump could really tote the rock..you gotta be pretty darn special to make the NFL from The Citadel.

Then how do you explain Travis Jervey?

NFL loves white running backs...or the hope that there could be a decent one.

Travis couldn't hold Stump's jock.

986 att, 4649 yards, 4.7 ypc. 209 rec, 1955 yards, 9.4 y/r.

punt: 156, 1377, 8.8. Ret: 177, 4007, 22.6

Jervey: 503 yards rushing. 'nuff said.

There were 3 Citadel players who had decent NFL careers.

Stump, TJ, and Paul Maguire.

Travis played for 9 years for 3 teams and kept a job based on "white speed" and potential. That, and he was an ST stud. Jervey gained more yards returning punts than he did rushing from the LOS. And he really wasn't a punt returner.

You can't compare college football of the 50s to the modern day. Hell, Marquette had a team.

P.S. Aren't you forgetting angelo coia

Don't get ya Ty. Who is comparing college ball from the 50's to anything?

Yeah, I forgetting Coia all to hell and back. & I'm old enough to remember him. But I don't.

If TJ is on the list, OK. Angelo Coia had a mediocre NFL career.

Ty was merely saying that making the NFL from Citadel in the modern era as Stump did is a totally different accomplishment than doing so from the 50s or before. That is all.

The original point of my post was that Stump was a hella good player making it from Citadel.

Yes, it was much harder to make a team in the 50's and '60s than now. Fewer than half as many teams, rosters of 36-40 players. There are 3x to 4x as many NFL players now as then.

Of course. But, that is a strawman.

It was far easier to make a team from different schools..that is the point...and ps, you aren't helping yourself...since McGuire didn't originally make the NFL..AFL.. .

College football back then wasn't the industry it is today.

[KYPack]

Ty,

The comment about 50's college football didn't make a lick of sense + you got Patlerized, IMHO.

Stump Mitchell? yeah, yer right, he was one tough little bitch and easily the best ball player that strange little military college ever sent to the NFL.

[SnakeLH2006]

Jervey's problem was that he was going a million miles an hour from the moment he got the handoff, but he didn't have the mass to move piles. He had no patience to wait and let the hole develop, something that Dorsey Levens did really well. If the hole was right in front of him already, great, Jervey was off to the races (I remember see that happen exactly once). But otherwise a handoff to Jervey was followed quickly by the sight of him smashing into a mountain of linemen, who rarely if ever moved.

Remember Darrell Thompson. Snake does. Same type of player.

[Guiness]

Ty was merely saying that making the NFL from Citadel in the modern era as Stump did is a totally different accomplishment than doing so from the 50s or before. That is all.

The original point of my post was that Stump was a hella good player making it from Citadel.

Yes, it was much harder to make a team in the 50's and '60s than now. Fewer than half as many teams, rosters of 36-40 players. There are 3x to 4x as many NFL players now as then.

I call straw man on that as well.

I'm guessing there are 3x to 4x as many college football players now as there was then too...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty,

The comment about 50's college football didn't make a lick of sense + you got Patlerized, IMHO.

Stump Mitchell? yeah, yer right, he was one tough little bitch and easily the best ball player that strange little military college ever sent to the NFL.

Doesn't make sense? I thought you were a bit brighter. Recent college football is a machine a business.

Back in the 40s and 50s it wasn't...or let me spell it out for you....certain players were at smaller colleges...those players were black.

Ty coulda also mentioned the amount of players playing now vs. then, the better scouting of high now vs. then, etc. Or, players that seeing the low salaries chose not to play pro ball.

Patler's argument, while funny ...is a strawman. Not to mention McGuire didn't make the NFL out of college.

[KYPack]

Ty,

The comment about 50's college football didn't make a lick of sense + you got Patlerized, IMHO.

Stump Mitchell? yeah, yer right, he was one tough little bitch and easily the best ball player that strange little military college ever sent to the NFL.

Doesn't make sense? I thought you were a bit brighter. Recent college football is a machine a business.

Back in the 40s and 50s it wasn't...or let me spell it out for you....certain players were at smaller colleges...those players were black.

Ty coulda also mentioned the amount of players playing now vs. then, the better scouting of high now vs. then, etc. Or, players that seeing the low salaries chose not to play pro ball.

Patler's argument, while funny ...is a strawman. Not to mention McGuire didn't make the NFL out of college.

So I'm not very bright because I disagree with you?

Then I've got a shot at full blown mental retardation. I'll disagree with any poster that makes a non-sensical statement. You comment is true in many regards. My beef with it is that nobody mentioned anything about 50's college football. And college football in the 50's was practically a cottage industry compared to the, monster money machine it is today, 'tis very true.
But why single out the 50's? Players from the Citadel didn't make NFL rosters in any era. You got a guy here and a guy there, and Stump Mitchell. I'll give ya credit, I forgot all about Stump. But the Citadel is a minor outpost of NFL quality players in any era, not just the 50's. The Citadel has never got the elite athlete of any color. Stump was the exception that proves the rule.

So yeah, I don't think your original statement made a lot of sense.

[Patler]

Ty was merely saying that making the NFL from Citadel in the modern era as Stump did is a totally different accomplishment than doing so from the 50s or before. That is all.

The original point of my post was that Stump was a hella good player making it from Citadel.

Yes, it was much harder to make a team in the 50's and '60s than now. Fewer than half as many teams, rosters of 36-40 players. There are 3x to 4x as many NFL players now as then.

I call straw man on that as well.

I'm guessing there are 3x to 4x as many college football players now as there was then too...

I guess my single laughing emoticon wasn’t enough to show that I was kidding. It is really difficult to determine when opportunities were better or worse. Longevity in the pro ranks affects it too, as do just the raw numbers. However, my numerical allegation was factual regarding teams and roster sizes. You will have to convince me that what I highlighted above is true. I have doubts that it is true for several reasons:

The number of Division I football teams is relatively the same today as it was in the 60s, and only slightly more than in the 1950s.

Division II, III and other peripheral college programs have substantially decreased in numbers due to the high cost of maintaining football programs.

It wasn't too long ago that there were not roster size limitations and scholarship number limitations for football programs. Accordingly, any one school could have had many more players in total and many more scholarship players than today.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there were as many, if not more college football players in the 1960s as there are today.

[hoosier]

Stump could really tote the rock..you gotta be pretty darn special to make the NFL from The Citadel.

Then how do you explain Travis Jervey?

NFL loves white running backs...or the hope that there could be a decent one.

Travis couldn't hold Stump's jock.

986 att, 4649 yards, 4.7 ypc. 209 rec, 1955 yards, 9.4 y/r.

punt: 156, 1377, 8.8. Ret: 177, 4007, 22.6

Jervey: 503 yards rushing. 'nuff said.

There were 3 Citadel players who had decent NFL careers.

Stump, TJ, and Paul Maguire.

Travis played for 9 years for 3 teams and kept a job based on "white speed" and potential. That, and he was an ST stud. Jervey gained more yards returning punts than he did rushing from the LOS. And he really wasn't a punt returner.

You can't compare college football of the 50s to the modern day. Hell, Marquette had a team.

P.S. Aren't you forgetting angelo coia

Don't get ya Ty. Who is comparing college ball from the 50's to anything?

Yeah, I forgetting Coia all to hell and back. & I'm old enough to remember him. But I don't.

If TJ is on the list, OK. Angelo Coia had a mediocre NFL career.

I can't believe you people are arguing over the handful of NFL players from the Citadel and you completely omit the one and only Greg Davis.

[KYPack]

Davis was a kicker. Yeah, had to google. Can't say I ever remember the boy kicking in a game.

Paul McGuire was an LB in addition to punting, so he counts.

NFL films had a great segment on the AFL. They did a few blurbs on Paul McGuire. Paul stated that the AFL was great, etc. He also said something that was very accurate. He said the the AFL was good for expanding the sport of pro football. Mcguire stated that without the AFL, himself and a number of other players would have never played pro ball.

I thought it was very humble (& true) of him to say that.

[hoosier]

Davis was a kicker. Yeah, had to google. Can't say I ever remember the boy kicking in a game.

Paul McGuire was an LB in addition to punting, so he counts.

NFL films had a great segment on the AFL. They did a few blurbs on Paul McGuire. Paul stated that the AFL was great, etc. He also said something that was very accurate. He said the the AFL was good for expanding the sport of pro football. Mcguire stated that without the AFL, himself and a number of other players would have never played pro ball.

I thought it was very humble (& true) of him to say that.

Maguire's AFL career also has a connection--admittedly very obscure--with the Packers. His blocks sprung Butch Byrd on his punt return for a TD in the '65 AFL championship against the Chargers. The SD punter was none other than John Hadl.

He was involved in one of the most spectacular plays in Bills' history in the 1965 American Football League Championship game against the Chargers. Butch Byrd took a John Hadl punt and with outstanding blocking, took it 74 yards for a TD. The last two blocks were by Maguire, crushing two Chargers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Maguire

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty,

The comment about 50's college football didn't make a lick of sense + you got Patlerized, IMHO.

Stump Mitchell? yeah, yer right, he was one tough little bitch and easily the best ball player that strange little military college ever sent to the NFL.

Doesn't make sense? I thought you were a bit brighter. Recent college football is a machine a business.

Back in the 40s and 50s it wasn't...or let me spell it out for you....certain players were at smaller colleges...those players were black.

Ty coulda also mentioned the amount of players playing now vs. then, the better scouting of high now vs. then, etc. Or, players that seeing the low salaries chose not to play pro ball.

Patler's argument, while funny ...is a strawman. Not to mention McGuire didn't make the NFL out of college.

So I'm not very bright because I disagree with you?

Then I've got a shot at full blown mental retardation. I'll disagree with any poster that makes a non-sensical statement. You comment is true in many regards. My beef with it is that nobody mentioned anything about 50's college football. And college football in the 50's was practically a cottage industry compared to the, monster money machine it is today, 'tis very true.
But why single out the 50's? Players from the Citadel didn't make NFL rosters in any era. You got a guy here and a guy there, and Stump Mitchell. I'll give ya credit, I forgot all about Stump. But the Citadel is a minor outpost of NFL quality players in any era, not just the 50's. The Citadel has never got the elite athlete of any color. Stump was the exception that proves the rule.

So yeah, I don't think your original statement made a lot of sense.

Original sentence..you gotta be something special to make the NFL outta Citadel.

That doesn't make sense? Really?

Nobody is disagreeing about Citadel...strictly the idea that comparing making the NFL from Citadel in the 50s to the modern area isn't fair.

[MOBB DEEP]

Re: Shaun Alexander: Hero to Zero

Kind of sad to see a guy go from MVP to absolutely useless. He says he's willing to play for "nothing."

wasnt he like an academic all-american!

so he's FAR from useless

keep it in perspective; all this mess is is ENTERTAINMENT!