OUCH! OL At #19

[Packnut]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9848856/Positional-Power-Rankings:-OL-packages

While I know it's realistic to expect some growing pains with our D, for some strange reason, I think Capers will surprise. Could be kool-aid thinking, but he does have a proven track record in first year improvments.

However, I am seriously concerned about this O-line. We have the best set of WR's in the NFL. We have a QB who should take a huge step up. Grant has proven he can be a good back.

IF MM removes his head from his arse and figures out we DON'T have the guys for a ZB scheme and realizes power football is the all time tried and true blueprint for success, our rookie FB could be a HUGE asset. Johnson is the best blocking back I've seen come out of college in a loooong time.

BUT, I can't stop worrying about this line. The plain fact is where as no GM has been as good at spotting WR talent, very few have been as bad when it comes to O linemen evaluation. The Thompson track record at O line is pretty brutal so far after all the time he's had.

[Brando19]

As you stated, TT is good at finding talent in most positions...but not the O line. That can be seen by not resigning Wahle and Rivera...or at least one of the two. Would have been pretty sweet if we had went after Hutchinson a few years back.

[Packnut]

Line

As you stated, TT is good at finding talent in most positions...but not the O line. That can be seen by not resigning Wahle and Rivera...or at least one of the two. Would have been pretty sweet if we had went after Hutchinson a few years back.

I know that brings up the whole salary cap issue back then but my point was always that there was no plan B except to sign a few clowns that really sucked.

Thompson has many strengths but his biggest weakness is his view of offensive lineman and kickers. He just won't commit big money to those positions if he can avoid it.

After all this time in the Thompson regime, we're still at a point where we're forced to count on a lot of "what ifs and may-be's" when it comes to our O-line. Hell, I'd like to believe that he finally has gotten it right. I hope Sutton is a beast and the other young guys step up.

I don't know, it's taking a whole lot of kool-aid drinking to have any confidence that we're FINALLY headed in the right direction.

[pittstang5]

Let's be fair here. They had to let Wahle go. Wahle got LT money and I think Carolina actually wanted him to play LT, little did they know that he just isn't a LT. Plus with the cap situation at the time, the Packers just didn't have money to be throwing around to resign him. Rivera again got huge money (at least I think he got big money) and look how that turned out...one decent year and then he got hurt and retired or was let go..whatever.

BUT..I do agree with the original post. The O-line is my biggest concern going into this year. I have faith in the Defense. They are going to have mistakes - it's expected with a new scheme...this I can understand and I expect them to not be that good at first. But I am sick of a weak o-line every year. Is it TT or is it the coaching staff? I don't know...don't really care...I just want a decent line.

[pbmax]

Wahle not only got LT money, but Rivera got RT money for RG from the Cowboys and then promptly fell apart. Saying he should have signed one of the two is spitting into the wind. There was no money to do one without either salary cap surgery or pushing the cost forward again. And if he had only been able to afford Rivera, it would have been dead money in less than a year. As it was Sharper was gone when he would not accept a $4 million dollar cut. How well would you have looked upon Thompson if, in a effort to resign Wahle he cut two other starters?

One stumblebum was Sherman's choice for Wahle's replacement (Klemm) and the other was a near minimum signing of O'Dwyer. And exactly what evidence do you site that tells you Thompson won't fork over money for a tackle? He hasn't tried to trim Clifton's salary and he has bumped up Tauscher's.

As for the talent on hand, Colledge is better than advertised, especially in the run game. There needs to be a replacement LT soon, but every team with a long time starter will find itself in this position. Do you expect Thompson to pay starter money for a backup to satisfy your need for knowing who the NEXT left tackle is?

There are several reasonable candidates at RT and I think RG will be fine with Sitton. As for the 19th ranking, I think that reflects more the 6-10 record more than performance. 34 sacks of a rookie starter is not in the 1/3 worst in the league, considering Rodgers number of throws. And while we did not break long runs, the run game was effective (the short yardage unit improved quite a bit), if not game breaking most of the season. The new RT will likely help as will Sitton and, I hope, Spitz at center.

At the end of this year, Thompson will have had to overhaul the OLine from stem to stern. he will do it with young talent, reducing the risk of spending on older players. As the offense has been top six the last two years, there is much less room to complain here than that ranking indicates.

[Fritz]

I'm with PB on all points, but in the past I wondered, like Packnut, about the ZBS. But having read Waldo's posts on the matter, it appears that Clifton and Tauscher simply do not have the skills necessary. Tauscher is hurt and gone, and this is probably Clifton's last year - at least as a Packer. From what I understand, the younger guys are more adept at the ZBS. Thus I think the running game and the pass blocking will be at least a little better than last year, and I think it will improve more - at least the run blocking - next year.

[Packnut]

Coach

Let's be fair here. They had to let Wahle go. Wahle got LT money and I think Carolina actually wanted him to play LT, little did they know that he just isn't a LT. Plus with the cap situation at the time, the Packers just didn't have money to be throwing around to resign him. Rivera again got huge money (at least I think he got big money) and look how that turned out...one decent year and then he got hurt and retired or was let go..whatever.

BUT..I do agree with the original post. The O-line is my biggest concern going into this year. I have faith in the Defense. They are going to have mistakes - it's expected with a new scheme...this I can understand and I expect them to not be that good at first. But I am sick of a weak o-line every year. Is it TT or is it the coaching staff? I don't know...don't really care...I just want a decent line.

You may have hit the nail on the head. I know every one loves our line coach, but it maybe time to take a closer look at him.

[Packnut]

O Line

I'm with PB on all points, but in the past I wondered, like Packnut, about the ZBS. But having read Waldo's posts on the matter, it appears that Clifton and Tauscher simply do not have the skills necessary. Tauscher is hurt and gone, and this is probably Clifton's last year - at least as a Packer. From what I understand, the younger guys are more adept at the ZBS. Thus I think the running game and the pass blocking will be at least a little better than last year, and I think it will improve more - at least the run blocking - next year.

I firmly believe when you have young guys, the biggest mistake is giving them to much to think about. Ya gotta simplify it. Especially now with all the young guys we have. Go to the power blocking scheme mano on mano.

It's the only thing Sherman was ever good at. The ZBS to me is more of a big play design. To much hit and miss for my taste. Be happy with 3-4 yds a carry and give your QB a manageable 3rd down and distance.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Of course, Green Bay isn't going to be ranked high. They have two projected starters that people have seen little of. It would not surprise me if it was a strength though. I like Clifton, Colledge, and Spitz. Sitton and Barbre have talent. I liked Lang while researching draft prospects. RT is the spot that concerns me.

[KYPack]

Of course, Green Bay isn't going to be ranked high. They have two projected starters that people have seen little of. It would not surprise me if it was a strength though. I like Clifton, Colledge, and Spitz. Sitton and Barbre have talent. I liked Lang while researching draft prospects. RT is the spot that concerns me.

I think our boys are growing into men. Spitz, Colledge, and Moll (who could be gone) just weren't NFL big and strong initially. Now we've got the troops, but I dunno if they will be cohesive enough to mesh right away this season.

I'd like to see them put that "power" series back in. Pull the LG and run him up thru the zero hole. Green made a couple thousand yards with that play & it would play right into our OL guys strength.

We don't run a strict Gibbs ZBS anymore. Let's mix and match and put in plays that work to our guys strength

[CaptainKickass]

I'd like to see them put that "power" series back in. Pull the LG and run him up thru the zero hole. Green made a couple thousand yards with that play & it would play right into our OL guys strength.

Was that the same play(s) that in interviews the players and coaches referred to as the "Stutter Step"?

I remember someone interviewed on camera saying something like "We've been running that stutter step all season long and nobody's stopped us so far.."

[KYPack]

I'd like to see them put that "power" series back in. Pull the LG and run him up thru the zero hole. Green made a couple thousand yards with that play & it would play right into our OL guys strength.

Was that the same play(s) that in interviews the players and coaches referred to as the "Stutter Step"?

I remember someone interviewed on camera saying something like "We've been running that stutter step all season long and nobody's stopped us so far.."

Could be. "Power" series are overloads in the line. The guard is your lead blocker. If the play is to the right, The center and the right guard seal the DT. The RT kicks his man out and the left guard leads thru the zero or two hole in some cases. The back does have to get a rhythmn. he can't take the ball and fire thru the hole, he must pause with a jab step or feint/delay of some type.

The 2000 - 2004 Packers could run the shit out of that play. This bunch here would alo be well suited to run it. Grant has good pace, but he ain't much at breaking tackles. To me, Colledge is perfect for those kinds of plays. He's one of the best downfield pulling guards I've seen. He has weaknesses in his game, but the guy can move and block people.

I'd like to see MM go to this stuff. In his running game, the FB is the lead most of the time. I hate our fullbacks. One can't block and the other can't run. Let's get a big ugly out leading some of our runs.

[swede]

I'd like to see MM go to this stuff. In his running game, the FB is the lead most of the time. I hate our fullbacks. One can't block and the other can't run. Let's get a big ugly out leading some of our runs.

KY- do you think Quinn has enough ugly in him to do the job? I'm thinking the kid might push Henderson for longevity and utility.

And as far as the #19 for the O-line, it aint how you start--it's how you finish!

[wist43]

It's difficult to think you can have that many positions in flux and not expect to be downgraded for it.

Even the positions that are set, LT and LG have warts that come with them... Clifton never has been a good run blocker, and Colledge is wildly inconsistent.

Spitz will play somewhere C/RG... but if it's RG and Wells wins the C job again - that's substandard. Wells is not a starting calibur C IMO.

Let's face it, the Packers have OL issues, and have had for several years.

[KYPack]

I'd like to see MM go to this stuff. In his running game, the FB is the lead most of the time. I hate our fullbacks. One can't block and the other can't run. Let's get a big ugly out leading some of our runs.

KY- do you think Quinn has enough ugly in him to do the job? I'm thinking the kid might push Henderson for longevity and utility.

And as far as the #19 for the O-line, it aint how you start--it's how you finish!

I'm all for it, Swede. By "big ugly", I meant a lineman. I like to block up big bodies with another big body. Our fullbacks suck. Kuhn can block a little, but can't really run. Hall is an awful blocker and he seems to be getting worse with time. Johnson appears to be a good prospect and I see him beating out one of the vet FB's.

Our OLine is #19?
Whatever.
We got a better line than Pittsburgh and they were ranked above us.
The Chargers are #22?
If I was a Charger fan, I'd be screaming about that one.