Defensive line, from liability to strength again in 2009?

[Spaulding]

Since the drafting of Raji I've gotten more and more pumped that this will become a strength again for the Packers.

The drafting of Raji obviously helps substantially. Also the hope of Harrell providing any type of value in being a serviceable DL is out there.

Jenkins coming back for a healthy 2009 in itself might be tip in the scale.

I personally think though that the hiring of Mike Trgovac will be the most important part to the overall improvement of the line. His resume is quite impressive as are his results at all stops during his career.

Although far from complete, the following wikipedia (take it for what it's worth) has a quick run down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Trgovac

IMO I believe we're going to surprise quite a few teams with the strength of our DL play and could also see another player coming out of nowhere to prove to be a solid contributor on the line. I'm specifically thinking Alfred Malone. He was on the practice squad I believe in Houston when Capers was there and he evidently saw something there. Now a few years older and little bigger, maybe he's progressed enough to be a solid player.

When I look at the starting three:
Jenkins (if healthy an impact player)
Pickett (solid)
Raji (skys the limit)

And then the depth behind them:
Harrell - question mark but if truly healthy a good upside
Jolly - pending legal issue a solid backup
Montgomery - junk
Malone - I think a potential solid backup
Wynn - a bit light but has potential
Talley - camp body?
Toribio - practice squad?
Muhtadi - camp body?

I find it hard not to be optimistic, given the following equation:

Average line to weak DL (C-) + high draft choice (B) + plus excellent DL coach (A) + return of possibly biggest impact DL player in Jenkins (A-) =

B+/A-

Another glass of kool-aid please?[/url]

[cheesner]

Another plus - we are going from 4 DL to 3 DL. We need less in this system so we are not diluting the talent.

This DL could do some wonderful things. In the best case scenario, if Jolly and Harrell both live up to their potential, we could have an excellent rotation going on and be dominant.

[]{ilr]3]

I was hoping when I woke up this morning the headlines would read Raji has signed and will be in camp on time.

The guy looks like a beast (really, like a fictional characature in a Shrek movie )and it will be good to see how he compares to the Pro's.

[red]

i really like the starting 3, but we could be in serious trouble if one goes down

jolly could still end up in prison, or suspended. and he's really the only solid backup you can count on.

you can't rely on harrell, anything he adds this year would have to be considered a bonus

the rest of the guys seem like camp fodder.

[bobblehead]

I think in the cap era any team is in a bit of trouble if a starting DL goes down. We are no different. Given Jenkins injury history and Harrell's as well I'm not overly optimistic, but with a bit of luck we could have a really solid D this year. I have other concerns as well, but as the OP alluded to the coaching should be much improved and I think that is often underestimated in the "luck" equation".

Go pack, 12-4 wouldn't shock me, but neither would 8-8.

[pack4to84]

I think in the cap era any team is in a bit of trouble if a starting DL goes down. We are no different. Given Jenkins injury history and Harrell's as well I'm not overly optimistic, but with a bit of luck we could have a really solid D this year. I have other concerns as well, but as the OP alluded to the coaching should be much improved and I think that is often underestimated in the "luck" equation".

Go pack, 12-4 wouldn't shock me, but neither would 8-8.

That is why you will start to see more and more teams switch to 3-4. It is easy to find depth at OLB vs Good DE. Under the 3-4 the DE are DT converted to DE there job is to occupied the OL. With 3-4 teams you carry 6 DL vs 9 or 10 under 4-3. Making it easier to find backups if you only need 3 vs 5.

[ThunderDan]

That is why you will start to see more and more teams switch to 3-4. It is easy to find depth at OLB vs Good DE. Under the 3-4 the DE are DT converted to DE there job is to occupied the OL. With 3-4 teams you carry 6 DL vs 9 or 10 under 4-3. Making it easier to find backups if you only need 3 vs 5.

I think the real reason more teams are going to the 3-4 is it allows more flexibility. In the age of the wildcat having an "extra" LB who can catch and tackle a Ron Brown is going to be big.

I think the evolution of the offense to more 5 WR sets and wildcat formations forces the defense to be more adaptable. I also think it is going to force teams to have a 6'2" safety that can run and hit like Rouse on the Packers (not saying that he is good, just a comparision in size).

[Patler]

That is why you will start to see more and more teams switch to 3-4. It is easy to find depth at OLB vs Good DE. Under the 3-4 the DE are DT converted to DE there job is to occupied the OL. With 3-4 teams you carry 6 DL vs 9 or 10 under 4-3. Making it easier to find backups if you only need 3 vs 5.

I think the real reason more teams are going to the 3-4 is it allows more flexibility. In the age of the wildcat having an "extra" LB who can catch and tackle a Ron Brown is going to be big.

I think the evolution of the offense to more 5 WR sets and wildcat formations forces the defense to be more adaptable. I also think it is going to force teams to have a 6'2" safety that can run and hit like Rouse on the Packers (not saying that he is good, just a comparision in size).

These things run in cycles. More and more teams will switch to the 3-4 over the next 10 years, offenses will adapt and exploit, and teams will start moving back to a 4-3.

[gex]

That is why you will start to see more and more teams switch to 3-4. It is easy to find depth at OLB vs Good DE. Under the 3-4 the DE are DT converted to DE there job is to occupied the OL. With 3-4 teams you carry 6 DL vs 9 or 10 under 4-3. Making it easier to find backups if you only need 3 vs 5.

I think the real reason more teams are going to the 3-4 is it allows more flexibility. In the age of the wildcat having an "extra" LB who can catch and tackle a Ron Brown is going to be big.

I think the evolution of the offense to more 5 WR sets and wildcat formations forces the defense to be more adaptable. I also think it is going to force teams to have a 6'2" safety that can run and hit like Rouse on the Packers (not saying that he is good, just a comparision in size).

These things run in cycles. More and more teams will switch to the 3-4 over the next 10 years, offenses will adapt and exploit, and teams will start moving back to a 4-3.

Do you think bigger running backs can exploit the 3-4? A big fullback/runningback combo busting thru to the 2nd level and pounding the linebackers and safties regularly.
Someone like Christian Okoye comes to mind.

[SnakeLH2006]

That is why you will start to see more and more teams switch to 3-4. It is easy to find depth at OLB vs Good DE. Under the 3-4 the DE are DT converted to DE there job is to occupied the OL. With 3-4 teams you carry 6 DL vs 9 or 10 under 4-3. Making it easier to find backups if you only need 3 vs 5.

I think the real reason more teams are going to the 3-4 is it allows more flexibility. In the age of the wildcat having an "extra" LB who can catch and tackle a Ron Brown is going to be big.

I think the evolution of the offense to more 5 WR sets and wildcat formations forces the defense to be more adaptable. I also think it is going to force teams to have a 6'2" safety that can run and hit like Rouse on the Packers (not saying that he is good, just a comparision in size).

These things run in cycles. More and more teams will switch to the 3-4 over the next 10 years, offenses will adapt and exploit, and teams will start moving back to a 4-3.

That's very true Patler.

3-4 D was a staple of the mid 80's to early 90's. It was phased out by the late 90's, then again, became popular in the early 2000's with the Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots.

The NFL if anything is a copycat league. What works for the winners, is imitated and run my many other teams, until it is exploited. Reboot.

[Fritz]

{ilr]3]I was hoping when I woke up this morning the headlines would read Raji has signed and will be in camp on time.

The guy looks like a beast (really, like a fictional characature in a Shrek movie )and it will be good to see how he compares to the Pro's.

I didn't know he only had one leg. No wonder they say he's got great balance.

[Bretsky]

I'd be fine with liability to average

[Spaulding]

All the love so far for Jenkins is adding to my optimism. We have a known solid (if unspectacular) player in Pickett who can do exactly what is asked of a 3-4 down lineman. We have Raji (provided he gets to camp reasonably soon) who has a NT body and the athleticism of an end and we have Mr. Jenkins. A player who tore it up at the end of 2007. looked unstoppable in pre-season and the first three games of 2008 before going down with injury and so far is garnishing high praise.

If Harrell does anything we I'm going to start singing that crappy 80's song - the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.