Good Punters

[Kiwon]

Why can't Green Bay ever find and keep one?

No punter is perfect in every phase of the game but one look at Jon Ryan's 8 punts for a 52.4 average last week and you have to shake your head.

Everybody struggles at times with consistency but if you find a guy with a proven big leg, keep him, give him some time and let him learn the subtleties of the other aspects of the position.

[Patler]

Re: Good Punters

Why can't Green Bay ever find and keep one?

No punter is perfect in every phase of the game but one look at Jon Ryan's 8 punts for a 52.4 average last week and you have to shake your head.

Everybody struggles at times with consistency but if you find a guy with a proven big leg, keep him, give him some time and let him learn the subtleties of the other aspects of the position.

I think their concern with Ryan was that he seemed to perform his poorest when they needed him the most. If you listen to the head coaches and ST coaches, what they really want more than anything is consistency, and Ryan had not supplied that. Really, what's the big difference between a a 45 yard kick on average and a 41 yard kick? The problem comes when the 45 yard average is due to three 50 yard kicks in the middle of the field and a 30 yarder when the team is backed up. Most coaches will gladly take the consistent kicks, even if a bit shorter.

That's why I think Kapinos wins the battle this year. He is more consistent than Brooks. It's the shanks that kill you.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Good Punters

Why can't Green Bay ever find and keep one?

No punter is perfect in every phase of the game but one look at Jon Ryan's 8 punts for a 52.4 average last week and you have to shake your head.

Everybody struggles at times with consistency but if you find a guy with a proven big leg, keep him, give him some time and let him learn the subtleties of the other aspects of the position.

I think their concern with Ryan was that he seemed to perform his poorest when they needed him the most. If you listen to the head coaches and ST coaches, what they really want more than anything is consistency, and Ryan had not supplied that. Really, what's the big difference between a a 45 yard kick on average and a 41 yard kick? The problem comes when the 45 yard average is due to three 50 yard kicks in the middle of the field and a 30 yarder when the team is backed up. Most coaches will gladly take the consistent kicks, even if a bit shorter.

That's why I think Kapinos wins the battle this year. He is more consistent than Brooks. It's the shanks that kill you.

I'm not sure either of these guys will be on the opening day roster. I suspect Ted may look to a roster cut from some other team. If we had to keep one, I'd rather have Kapinos for he reason you cited.

[MichiganPackerFan]

(In Mobb-speak) GET BJ SANDER

Did that guy ever play a game in the NFL or is he still playing the roll of Mike Sherman's jock strap. "Gentle BJ, Gentle."

[Patler]

I'm not sure how much is available from other rosters. Punting seems to be a down position right now, with a few teams wishing they could upgrade.

I think a booming leg might be overvalued on this team for this year. The offense is good enough that hopefully the punter will be presented with a lot of opportunities for kicks downed inside the opponents 20. Kapinos actually did a good job of that in his limited time last season. That ability might have more value for the '09 Packers than a guy who will get off an occasional 60 yarder.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not sure how much is available from other rosters. Punting seems to be a down position right now, with a few teams wishing they could upgrade.

I assume we'd be towards the front of any waiver claim line.

[Patler]

I'm not sure how much is available from other rosters. Punting seems to be a down position right now, with a few teams wishing they could upgrade.

I assume we'd be towards the front of any waiver claim line.

True, but anyone with 4 or more years is not subject to waivers at this time. Veterans become free agents if they are cut. I have no idea who might be available and how much experience they have, but if they don't have much are they really any better than what the Packers have?

There isn't likely to be any clear cut improvement available. If there isn't, I would almost prefer to see them keep one that they have, but on a much shorter leash than Frost had last season.

[Fritz]

As I posted on another thread, this area, to me, is the one Thompson deserves the most criticism for. He's botched it here. Bidwell he couldn't help - the guy wanted to go. But Ryan was not a find, and Frost was a debacle, and Kapinos and Brooks both seem pretty shaky. Kapinos may be more consistent, but he's not as consistent as he needs to be to compensate for his average leg.

And I haven't read much to indicate there's much else out there.

It's a position that Thompson has botched. Even the Lions have a better punter!

[Patler]

As I posted on another thread, this area, to me, is the one Thompson deserves the most criticism for. He's botched it here. Bidwell he couldn't help - the guy wanted to go. But Ryan was not a find, and Frost was a debacle, and Kapinos and Brooks both seem pretty shaky. Kapinos may be more consistent, but he's not as consistent as he needs to be to compensate for his average leg.

And I haven't read much to indicate there's much else out there.

It's a position that Thompson has botched. Even the Lions have a better punter!

Bidwell was gone more than a year before Thompson got to Green Bay. Brian Barker was the punter the year before Thompson came, and he was 40 years old with an expired contract. The Packers also had BJ Sander on the roster, thanks to Sherman. That's who TT inherited, BJ Sander.

How has Thompson "botched" the punter situation if you acknowledge there isn't much out there that is available? He can't make one out of thin air. Perhaps his biggest mistake was not having more patience with Ryan, but you even describe Ryan as "not a find".

Maybe the Lions punter is better, but he has been there since 2003, so its not like TT overlooked him for GB.

Maybe TT has "botched it", I don't know; but I would be interested in knowing who he could have had that he didn't take. He was given a bad one and hasn't found a long-term replacement yet. It's not like there are all kinds of good ones available and he keeps picking bad ones.

Did TT botch it because there is someone kicking in his backyard that TT has failed to discover?

[Pugger]

After watching Cinco placekick the other night I still find it amazing teams have to waste a precious roster spot on a punter. There has to be somebody on the roster right now besides Kapinos and Brooks can kick. They did it years ago...

[Fritz]

As I posted on another thread, this area, to me, is the one Thompson deserves the most criticism for. He's botched it here. Bidwell he couldn't help - the guy wanted to go. But Ryan was not a find, and Frost was a debacle, and Kapinos and Brooks both seem pretty shaky. Kapinos may be more consistent, but he's not as consistent as he needs to be to compensate for his average leg.

And I haven't read much to indicate there's much else out there.

It's a position that Thompson has botched. Even the Lions have a better punter!

Bidwell was gone more than a year before Thompson got to Green Bay. Brian Barker was the punter the year before Thompson came, and he was 40 years old with an expired contract. The Packers also had BJ Sander on the roster, thanks to Sherman. That's who TT inherited, BJ Sander.

How has Thompson "botched" the punter situation if you acknowledge there isn't much out there that is available? He can't make one out of thin air. Perhaps his biggest mistake was not having more patience with Ryan, but you even describe Ryan as "not a find".

Maybe the Lions punter is better, but he has been there since 2003, so its not like TT overlooked him for GB.

Maybe TT has "botched it", I don't know; but I would be interested in knowing who he could have had that he didn't take. He was given a bad one and hasn't found a long-term replacement yet. It's not like there are all kinds of good ones available and he keeps picking bad ones.

Did TT botch it because there is someone kicking in his backyard that TT has failed to discover?

My general line of thinking is that since there are 32 teams out there with punters, and Green Bay's have ranked so poorly the last three years (the years over which Thompson has had control), then that indicates that there have been punters available that other teams have spotted and signed and that TT missed out on.

The way to do this would be to look at the teams with punters who rank higher than Green Bay's (accounting for franchise locations) and see when those punters were available - if they were available within Thompson's tenure.

I can think of one punter who was available: Daniel Sepulveda. He was hurt last year, but he's back now, I believe.

I think, though I may be wrong, that the Raiders' punter was available as a free agent or restricted free agent.

[Patler]

The way to do this would be to look at the teams with punters who rank higher than Green Bay's (accounting for franchise locations) and see when those punters were available - if they were available within Thompson's tenure.

I can think of one punter who was available: Daniel Sepulveda. He was hurt last year, but he's back now, I believe.

I think, though I may be wrong, that the Raiders' punter was available as a free agent or restricted free agent.

Sepulveda was drafted by the Steelers in the 4th round of 2007, at #112, before the Packers pick in round 4. So the Packers would have had to trade up in the 4th ahead of Pittsburgh, or pick Sepulveda in the 3rd, instead of Rouse at #89 or Jones at #78. Bear in mind that Sepulveda had had ACL surgery before his senior year. He tore the same ACL again with the Steelers last training camp and missed all of 2008. At the time of the 2007 draft, the Packers had Jon Ryan coming of a decent rookie season. I'm not sure drafting a punter in the third round who was barely a year removed from ACL surgery would have made a lot of sense.

Lechler from Oakland would have been nice, but he never made it to free agency. The Raiders gave him a 4 year $12 million contract to stay before free agency even started. The Packers never had a chance.

I don't think either of those are evidence of TT botching it. Who else?


EDIT - Just realized something. Irony of all ironies. The Steelers took Sepulveda with pick #112, which they got in a trade from the Packers! They gave the Packers pick #119 and #192. #119 was used for Barbre, and #192 was used for Bishop. So the Packers could have had Sepulveda at the expense of Barbre and Bishop, or some other changes latter in that draft. Considering they already had a big-legged young punter, I think I would still make the trade today.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not sure how much is available from other rosters. Punting seems to be a down position right now, with a few teams wishing they could upgrade.

I assume we'd be towards the front of any waiver claim line.

True, but anyone with 4 or more years is not subject to waivers at this time. Veterans become free agents if they are cut. I have no idea who might be available and how much experience they have, but if they don't have much are they really any better than what the Packers have?

There isn't likely to be any clear cut improvement available. If there isn't, I would almost prefer to see them keep one that they have, but on a much shorter leash than Frost had last season.

Ted gets some well deserved criticism for not following that advice last year.

Who would of thought that it would be this difficult to get a decent punter.

[Patler]

I'm not sure how much is available from other rosters. Punting seems to be a down position right now, with a few teams wishing they could upgrade.

I assume we'd be towards the front of any waiver claim line.

True, but anyone with 4 or more years is not subject to waivers at this time. Veterans become free agents if they are cut. I have no idea who might be available and how much experience they have, but if they don't have much are they really any better than what the Packers have?

There isn't likely to be any clear cut improvement available. If there isn't, I would almost prefer to see them keep one that they have, but on a much shorter leash than Frost had last season.

Ted gets some well deserved criticism for not following that advice last year.

Who would of thought that it would be this difficult to get a decent punter.

I agree, and will also admit that at the time the change didn't bother me. I thought, "Why not try something different?" I guess we found out!

[Iron Mike]

Waaay off topic here, but when Jim McMahon used to be on the team, didn't he used to beg Holmy to let him drop kick???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bogdanski: What the hell was that?
Paul Crewe: That was a dropkick.
Bogdanski: Dropkick?
Paul Crewe: Dropkick.
Bogdanski: How much is that worth?
Paul Crewe: Three points.
Bogdanski: Three points?
Paul Crewe: Three points.
Bogdanski: For that? Bullshit!