Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

[Zool]

Re: Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.

So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

[wist43]

Re: Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

This much is certain before he breaks his first sweat in training camp: Acquiring Walker was a move the Broncos didn't hesitate one second to make. When the Packers ceded to Walker's trade demands and made him available for the 37th pick in the draft, Shanahan and his staff jumped at the opportunity.

"How they pulled that off, I don't know," said Mike Heimerdinger, the Broncos' de facto offensive coordinator. "I was as shocked as everybody else. We all had a vote and it was unanimous. I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' It was kind of a no-brainer."

He'll have a good season. I don't think it was this much of a no brainer or other teams would have been offering more. I'm sure TT gave the next bidders a chance to beat it.

I thought it was a "no-brainer" for the Broncos; and, I thought it was idiotic of TT.

Yes, Walker is coming off of a torn up knee, but if healthy, he has the potential to be a top 5 WR... you just don't let those guys walk - unless he's a complete idiot like TO.

Most of the Walker mess was TT's fault... Without rehashing the whole mess - I'll not back off of that position.

Walker may not put up "franchise" type numbers b/c of recovery time from the injury, and a new QB/system; but, in time, I expect he'll be back to pro bowl form fairly quickly.

[wist43]

The measure of Ted Thompson comes in 2007. It sucks to have to endure another rebuilding season, but realistically that's what we got in 2006.

Team better have winning record in 2007, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, or Ted's rebuilding project gonna be looking sad.

The good news is, the Packers will likely be drafting fairly high again in next years draft, so hopefully they can target the highest rated WR (not Jarrett), a difference making DE, and some interior OL help.

The Packers have no realistic chance of winning anything for the next few years - we're just looking for progress from the young guys and successive successful drafts.

[MJZiggy]

Since you've already predicted the outcome, why bother playing the games?

[wist43]

ziggy,

I'm looking for progress and improvement... to me 7-9 would represent progress.

They simply have too many issues to deal with and overcome. Never mind the fact that they have no playmakers on offense, and no pass rush on defense. Beyound those realities, McCarthy is a complete unknown and, forgive me for saying this, he has, at times, looked like a deer in the headlights - all the while saying all the right things.

Beyond that, they also have two new coordinators who have never done it before... So, the 3 main people in charge of making the day-to-day camp decisions, and game day decisions, are all 3 completely new to those positions - there are going to be growing pains.

The run blocking scheme is new, and the newly acquired talent on both sides of the ball, can't be expected to come in and perform at a pro bowl level, etc....

Then, looking ahead, suppose Favre hangs em up this next off season... Rodgers is going to take time to develop - surely you don't think that he'll have the Packers in the playoffs in his first season as a starter??? Not with the limited talent around him.

Clearly, REALISTICALLY, it's going to take a few years.

[MJZiggy]

See, Wist, that's where you and I are different. You see no proven playmakers, I see young playters with the opportunity to step up. You see a coaching staff that's never been at their level before and I see a very professional head coach who is rumored to have the respect of his qb and that no other coach or coordinator has the ability to plan against. They don't know what we're going to do. And remind me again why it's impossible for men to play at a pro bowl level simply because they're new to the team. As I recall, Favre, Driver, Harris and (was Woodson there) have spent time in Hawaii. Realistically, who's to say Tausch doesn't go this year? And with something to prove, perhaps we'll see Harris repeat as well. Rodgers, God willing has another year to learn from the best and if you look in the change in demeanor that BF shows to AR, you will see that AR is earning his respect. They talk more, AR will learn more. Maybe it's not so clear after all?

[Chester Marcol]

Rastak, since when were you on a first name basis with that wide reciever from Oakland?

We go way back HH.

Remember back when Moss ran over the meter maid and they found a joint in his car? He said it was his friend's. That was Rastak's weed.

[RashanGary]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

[wist43]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

I'm an "old timer" on these sites... everyone, or at least I thought everyone, knows my stance on that - I wouldn't have waited for Walker and his agent to come to me, I would have gone to them.

And given the cap situation back then, I would have told them - would have given them "my word" - that as soon as the cap is in order, we'll redo the deal.

In 1994 Aaron Taylor was reluctant to participate in the minicamps b/c he was afraid of being injured b/4 he signed his contract. Ron Wolfe assured Taylor that if he were injured he would negotiate Taylor's contract as if he were perfectly healthy. Of course, Taylor blew out his knee, and didn't play a down for the Packers that year, and was limited the following year; but, Wolfe was true to his word and did the deal as if there were nothing wrong with Taylor.

That's how you do business with your top flight players. You communicate with them, you let them know that they're wanted, and barring cap complications, you'll do everything possible to ensure they're getting what the market will bear.

Sometimes the $$$$ won't be there, and the player will have to walk, but at least it will be on good terms both professionally and personally.

TT doesn't get that...

Even after Walker blew his knee out, I would have approached him and his agent about an extension. Guys with Walker's physical skills don't come along every day - and to let him walk for just a 2nd round pick was idiotic.

[Creepy]

Same old hash, did he detsroy the Packers or is he saving the Packers?

Agianst TT:

He lost Flanagan, Wahle, Walker, and Rivera on offense. He lost Sharper and Jackosn on defense.

For TT: Flanagan is a C who has been hurt the last two years and has not played up to his prior level. Regardless of injury he is old and injured and needed to be replaced. On Wahle & Rivera he had a choice, lose both or keep one and damage the salary cap. He chose to let both go and is rebuilding through the draft. Sharper is anoth player looking good in hi-lite films but performance was poor overall and getting older. Jackson was a Tub who can't keep from getting bigger is a good thng he is gone as he woudln't fit through the tunnel.

Against TT: No significant FA sigings, Hutchinson, a pass rush DE, any good RB or Tye Law.

For TT: Hutchjinson cost way too much, no really good DE available in FA, Law is a lot of money with little return (age). He did pick up Pickett, drafted Hawk, and picked up Woodson.

Against TT: Didn't make Gates HC. Coached a low talent defense to a top ten finish and hired the OC of the 32d ranked offense. Lost a possible good HC and replaced him with pretty slim choice, ala Ray Rhodes and Rhodes had a better reume.

For TT: Needed to get GB back to the WC offense and Gates was not an offensive genius. PIcked a coach who had worked with Favre before and knows the WC offense well and retained Gates assistant who has worked in the Gates style defense so no change in defensive play.

This could go on and on and on and on. Same old hash. It is time to wait for the games and see what he has really put together. IF GB makes the play-offs the Pro-TT people will gloat. GB falls on its face both offensivley and defensively and the Anti-TT people will be happy.

GB plays avergae football and both sides will spin it to their liking. Anti-TT will balme him for not making a play-off contention team and Pro-TT will claim he did a great job with a 4-12 team.

The only way this gets settled is if GB wins the SB, then one side will have nothng to say. Even if right on some points it won't matter. Same is true if GB falls to 2-14, nobody will support him or anything else.

IMHO, I am not for or agianst TT. I like some of the things he has done and I hate some of the other moves. By the end of this year I will have a better understanding.

[RashanGary]

I'm an "old timer" on these sites... everyone, or at least I thought everyone, knows my stance on that - I wouldn't have waited for Walker and his agent to come to me, I would have gone to them.

And given the cap situation back then, I would have told them - would have given them "my word" - that as soon as the cap is in order, we'll redo the deal.

In 1994 Aaron Taylor was reluctant to participate in the minicamps b/c he was afraid of being injured b/4 he signed his contract. Ron Wolfe assured Taylor that if he were injured he would negotiate Taylor's contract as if he were perfectly healthy. Of course, Taylor blew out his knee, and didn't play a down for the Packers that year, and was limited the following year; but, Wolfe was true to his word and did the deal as if there were nothing wrong with Taylor.

That's how you do business with your top flight players. You communicate with them, you let them know that they're wanted, and barring cap complications, you'll do everything possible to ensure they're getting what the market will bear.

Sometimes the $$$$ won't be there, and the player will have to walk, but at least it will be on good terms both professionally and personally.

TT doesn't get that...

Even after Walker blew his knee out, I would have approached him and his agent about an extension. Guys with Walker's physical skills don't come along every day - and to let him walk for just a 2nd round pick was idiotic.

Nice option.

[woodbuck27]

Wist,

It's the start of the 2004 off season. You are Ted Thompson and Walker/Rosenhaus ask for top 5 WR money. What do you do? I want to hear what the brilliant Wist would have done to make this situation better.

You do exactly as TT did.

If you have to this season you trade him as TT did.

The difference is:

TT had to get something REAL for NOW for OUR "O", to use in 2006 in liew of losing Javon Walker !!

[Bretsky]

I just read that excellent article.

I'll shoot from the hip here.I havn't read any of your responses but will read the thread after this post.

When I watch what Donald Driver does as a WR I am impressed with the effort he puts forth to make him as effective as he is. DD flat out works his butt off and he can run excellent routes and jig and jag for extra yards and the house after a spectacular catch in traffic. We are very fortunate to have this marvelous WR.

JAVON WALKER. This young man catch's the ball in traffic with outstanding coordination and athleticism.He is nothing short of spectacular in the way he hauls pass's in. Javon's the thouroughbred and Donald's the quarter horse.

It sickens me that we lost this fine WR that we drafted in round one.

HE IS A FIRST ROUND PICK ! Certainly not a bust ala Jamal Reynolds and we lost him and didn't substitute for his talent at his position to date.

That is BULLSHIT on behalf of Ted Thompson.

As we enter TC we see Donald Driver and . . . who in hell will it be at #2. We shouldn't have that doubt entering TC unless OUR GM didn't do his job.

Most of you want to be patient with Ted Thompson and dam it . . . I'm getting sucked in to the feel good . . . lets just give Ole Ted a chance to prove this or that in this or that area of concern.

BULLSHIT !!!

In two seasons as OUR GM. He has allowed OUR fine OL to go to absolute ruin in the middle and Ted's left us nothing more. . .

than a wish and a prayer with what may be plugged into that OL.

On top of that:

1. We have to wonder who will be OUR RB's (three of them coming off leg injuries. .THREE of THEM????? Uhhhh !!!

2.and to get back on topic - OUR #2 WR? Who's that going to be??? DD and who else ???? Good grief. I'm not buying into that.

Brett Favre wasn't buying into that either. The REAL story will one day be revealed. Ted Thompson is screwing us so cleverly that most of you arn't even aware of it.

Brett Favre certainly is.

We should not be wondering about so many areas !

I'm wondering about OUR GM ????

If he was going to not make any real effort to bring Javon Walker back to the fold . . . and he had solid reasons to just trade him - fine. Yet then, it comes down to fair exchange and I hate this . . . well we'll just have to wait and see how all those Rookies pan out.

We lost a top five WR and possibly a top three WR in the NFL folks . . and we are wondering who we have that deserves to line up with Donald Driver???

That sucks and TT is to blame.

Javon Walker gone . . . and well . . . we have Rod Gardner and Marc Boerigter and maybe Robert Ferguson will finaly get there (agains) does not equal the game that Javon Walker brought to us.

CLASSIC POST; sounds like something good enough to win an award on the Jim Rome Show

SORRY folks but I'm a NOW Packer fan . . . and NOW . . .

we are SCREWED !!

[Bretsky]

Re: Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.

So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

ZOOL,

As my five year old would scream, "That's not fair" !

A torn ACL rehab can go many many different ways. Some rehab it quickly and some never get it fully back.

I had a serious ACL tear and rehabbed it well. But my knee will never get to 100%. I'd guess it's in the 95% range; there is never a day when I don't know I hurt my knee.

That could happen to JW. Look at NFL examples on what players did after tearning the ACL. Willis MacGahee and Lee Evans both didn't excel until their second year back from the tear. I've predicted all along JW will have a decent year this year and then excel next year and the years after.

I too played sports and found year one after the tear to work through the pain and soreness and year 2 it was as good as it was going to be.

[Zool]

Re: Denver Post piece on Javon Walker

In late April, Walker couldn't fully extend his right leg.

So a full 7 months removed from surgery and he still didn't have 100% range of motion? I had the exact same thing to my left knee. I was at 90% at the 4 month mark and 100% at the 5 month mark and my job has nothing to do with athletics.

If he cant be bothered to at least be rehabbing harder than that, this is going to be an ugly year for him. You cannot run until your ROM is 100% and the fully extending part comes way before fully bent in your gait.

ZOOL,

As my five year old would scream, "That's not fair" !

A torn ACL rehab can go many many different ways. Some rehab it quickly and some never get it fully back.

I had a serious ACL tear and rehabbed it well. But my knee will never get to 100%. I'd guess it's in the 95% range; there is never a day when I don't know I hurt my knee.

That could happen to JW. Look at NFL examples on what players did after tearning the ACL. Willis MacGahee and Lee Evans both didn't excel until their second year back from the tear. I've predicted all along JW will have a decent year this year and then excel next year and the years after.

I too played sports and found year one after the tear to work through the pain and soreness and year 2 it was as good as it was going to be.

100% or not, 100% range of motion should easily be met by everyone within a 6 month period if running is a large portion of their careers. I was on a stationary bike 4 days out of surgery. The joint being back to 100% strength isnt what I mean. He should at least be able to extend his leg 100%, not even bend but extend.

I would agree that my knee didnt feel right for about 2 years, but I was running in a pool at about 7 months. My hospital has some cool sports rehab stuff, and the same surgeon that did Terrell Davis' surgery did mine.

What I'm trying to say is that it doesnt seem like he's progressing like he should be. Perhaps I'm wrong or perhaps the article wasnt entirely accurate. 100% extension is the first milestone on your "GOALS CHART" when you start rehab. At least mine was.