Rodgers is looking infinitely better

[bobblehead]

A-rod may never have the stats of Favre but is on track to win more super bowls than #4.

That's quite the stretch.

We'd love for that to be the case, but that's a leap. Especially with the modern NFL parody. Need a lot of things to go right to win, and it takes more than a top qb to win: it's a team game.

I disagree...New England has done it on a solid team and exceptional QB play for how many years?? Same goes for Indy. Its still the QB's league and they still need some talent around them.

Not that I'm arguing the original point of winning a bunch of super bowls...I'm not predicting that, but its within the realm of reason.

[bobblehead]

Sounds like you want him to be the next Favre.

...or Montana, or Bradshaw, or Brady. You know, a future Hall of Famer. Is that asking too much?

Fair enouigh. Thing I dont like is that he threw for 4K last season. Is he now gonna be expected to do that or more yearly? If anything he needs to throw a few less yards because it means the D played better and the run game was strong. The fact that two WRs had 1000yds while grant had 1200 doesnt set right with me. The 6-10 records seems to agree.

No one should expect, or necessarily even want Rodgers to throw for over 4k yards this season. The yardage production last year by the offense shows an offense good enough for a team to have a much better record. The issues then become:

- Timeliness of the offensive production, and I don't just mean at the ends of games. Putting a team away early is important in the final record too. First drives of a half can be nearly as important, to make the opponent immediately play catch-up. For all their offensive production in '08, the Packers were bad in first drives of the halves. An improvement in this alone could change the final results.

- Defensive play,

- Special Teams play.

- Coaching decisions.

........grinding out a clock killing drive in the 4th quarter to protect a lead. Rodgers shouldn't have to throw the ball at all in that situation. Just feed the rock to Grant and Co.

I still maintaint that 2 such clock killing drives were ruined by phantom holding calls last year....and both times the announcer (aikman once, forget the other) saw the replay and stated "you could call that on every single play in the NFL"

[MichiganPackerFan]

A-rod may never have the stats of Favre but is on track to win more super bowls than #4.

That's quite the stretch.

We'd love for that to be the case, but that's a leap. Especially with the modern NFL parody. Need a lot of things to go right to win, and it takes more than a top qb to win: it's a team game.

I disagree...New England has done it on a solid team and exceptional QB play for how many years?? Same goes for Indy. Its still the QB's league and they still need some talent around them.

Not that I'm arguing the original point of winning a bunch of super bowls...I'm not predicting that, but its within the realm of reason.

Put Brady or Manning on the Lions and they arent winning shit. The Patriots are well coached and are at least better than average at every position and that's why they won. For every Peyton Manning you give me, I'll show you an Eli Manning.

[Freak Out]

A-rod may never have the stats of Favre but is on track to win more super bowls than #4.

That's quite the stretch.

We'd love for that to be the case, but that's a leap. Especially with the modern NFL parody. Need a lot of things to go right to win, and it takes more than a top qb to win: it's a team game.

I disagree...New England has done it on a solid team and exceptional QB play for how many years?? Same goes for Indy. Its still the QB's league and they still need some talent around them.

Not that I'm arguing the original point of winning a bunch of super bowls...I'm not predicting that, but its within the realm of reason.

Put Brady or Manning on the Lions and they arent winning shit. The Patriots are well coached and are at least better than average at every position and that's why they won. For every Peyton Manning you give me, I'll show you an Eli Manning.

A Manning or Brady run lions offense wins you some games. Not the Superbowl but their leadership and skills makes that offense work pretty well.

But were talking about Rodgers......he appears to have all the skills needed to get this thing going but as Patler pointed out it's about more than stats. That said........the future looks bright.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Sounds like you want him to be the next Favre.

...or Montana, or Bradshaw, or Brady. You know, a future Hall of Famer. Is that asking too much?

Fair enouigh. Thing I dont like is that he threw for 4K last season. Is he now gonna be expected to do that or more yearly? If anything he needs to throw a few less yards because it means the D played better and the run game was strong. The fact that two WRs had 1000yds while grant had 1200 doesnt set right with me. The 6-10 records seems to agree.

No one should expect, or necessarily even want Rodgers to throw for over 4k yards this season. The yardage production last year by the offense shows an offense good enough for a team to have a much better record. The issues then become:

- Timeliness of the offensive production, and I don't just mean at the ends of games. Putting a team away early is important in the final record too. First drives of a half can be nearly as important, to make the opponent immediately play catch-up. For all their offensive production in '08, the Packers were bad in first drives of the halves. An improvement in this alone could change the final results.

- Defensive play,

- Special Teams play.

- Coaching decisions.

........grinding out a clock killing drive in the 4th quarter to protect a lead. Rodgers shouldn't have to throw the ball at all in that situation. Just feed the rock to Grant and Co.

I still maintaint that 2 such clock killing drives were ruined by phantom holding calls last year....and both times the announcer (aikman once, forget the other) saw the replay and stated "you could call that on every single play in the NFL"

Overall, I think the quality of the officiating league wide was really atrocious last season. Usually I'm impressed by how many calls the officials get right, last year they got a ton embarrassingly wrong.

[Patler]

While I agree with your premise that Rodgers isn't a finished product, I also tend to think people are nitpicking Rodgers first year as a starter. The team was good offensively, scored points, scored in the 4th quarter. However, Rodgers isn't getting a lot of breaks. Green Bay struggled in first drives of halves and at the very end of games after the defense let yet another team take the lead with under 6 minutes left. Conversely, they were very good at scoring and taking the lead in the first 9 minutes of the 4th quarter and they must have been very good after the first drives of halves to amass the scoring and yardage totals they did. You get the feeling that if Rodgers stats were the same, but they scored more on their first drives in halves, people would complain that they didn't do more on their second drives. We should just look at it as Rodgers had a hell of a first year as a starter. It would be nice to have better starts to halves (and maybe it will help that McCarthy trusts Rodgers more), he can improve his pocket awareness slightly, and he'll need to win more games at the end (it will help if the defense is more stout in the 4th quarter). However, he showed a great arm, accuracy, leadership, mobility, toughness, and the ability to bring the team back several times in the middle of the 4th quarter.

I don't disagree with any of that. The only comment I would make, and I don't know if it applies to Rodgers or not, another year or two will tell; is that performance when the spotlight is brightest can be a different thing than performing in a regular spotlight. This could explain early fourth quarter success and struggles in the last drives of the 4th quarter. In Rodgers defense, there were games in which he DID get it done in his last meaningful possession, only to have the defense and ST fail after him.

That is why I think 2009 will be very meaningful for Rodgers in defining what type of a QB and leader he is. If MM shows the confidence in him that all great QBs get, and if Rodgers has any success at all, the media will forget about their "complaints" from 2008. Shortly after the media forgets, the rank and file of NFL fans will, too.

[pbmax]

The Magical Mystery Tour of the Patriots in 07 featured a tremendous passing offense, but it was Brady's eighth year in the league and only the second time he was called upon to throw that much (the previous instance was 2002's 9-7 campaign) and carry the offense in that manner. Their previous Super Bowl wins featured better running attacks (03 might be the exception).

Given how they were winning, it remains an open question why Belicheck continued to throw like they did at the end of games.

I think the QB stats in the 4th quarter of close games are meaningful, as Patler said, performing with the spotlight on you late is a different animal for some people. But it is not the end all be all of Quarterbacking. Having the lead and maintaining possession is the trait I want to see the team develop. I am not interested in developing skills at coming from behind. I would be stunned if they worked on anything specific to late game situations (other than clock and kicks) with the offense as a whole and would expect they worked instead on sustaining drives and keeping field position on your side.

Rodgers said Brady told him to work on one or two things in the offseason and Rodgers choose two kinds of throws he wanted to make better. But the best news is that he seems to have better footwork in the pocket and a better developed sense of when and where pressure is coming from.

[sharpe1027]

In every game that is lost a QB on the losing team necessarily fails the last meaningful drive that there is still a chance at winning the game. Either the cause of every single losing team can be pinned primarily on the QB, or this whole analysis leaves something to be desired...

[mission]

In every game that is lost a QBs on the losing team necessarily fails the last meaningful drive that there is still a chance at still winning the game. Either every single losing team can be pinned primarily on the QB, or this whole analysis leaves something to be desired...

I guess that's true ...

[sharpe1027]

Operator error.

[packerbacker1234]

It's ok nitpick players, even Rodgers. We nitpicked Favre even back when he was playing awesome, including the 2007 seasons before the pick in the playoffs.

Folks just say this: At least we don't have Alex Smith. Poor 49ers.

[Patler]

In every game that is lost a QB on the losing team necessarily fails the last meaningful drive that there is still a chance at winning the game. Either the cause of every single losing team can be pinned primarily on the QB, or this whole analysis leaves something to be desired...

How so? If a QB drives to the go ahead score the last time he has the ball, yet loses without ever having possession again, how did he fail in his last meaningful drive?

[sharpe1027]

In every game that is lost a QB on the losing team necessarily fails the last meaningful drive that there is still a chance at winning the game. Either the cause of every single losing team can be pinned primarily on the QB, or this whole analysis leaves something to be desired...

How so? If a QB drives to the go ahead score the last time he has the ball, yet loses without ever having possession again, how did he fail in his last meaningful drive?

Ya got me. Still, not many games are lost when a team goes ahead in their last drive, and I hope that you can still understand my point.

[cheesner]

In every game that is lost a QB on the losing team necessarily fails the last meaningful drive that there is still a chance at winning the game. Either the cause of every single losing team can be pinned primarily on the QB, or this whole analysis leaves something to be desired...

How so? If a QB drives to the go ahead score the last time he has the ball, yet loses without ever having possession again, how did he fail in his last meaningful drive?

Ya got me. Still, not many games are lost when a team goes ahead in their last drive, and I hope that you can still understand my point.

Or the QB puts the ball in the WR hands for a sure TD and he drops it.

Or the RB is going in for a score and fumbles the ball away.

Or the Center forgets the snap count and hikes it while AR is looking the other way.

Or the OL messes up and a DL comes free to sack him.

Its a team sport. I understand what you are sayint, the QB is the most influential player on the team; usually the leader; and his play is critical to a successful team. But it still takes a team effort.

[MOBB DEEP]

A-rod may never have the stats of Favre but is on track to win more super bowls than #4.

child please....