Bob Sanders really was that bad

[KYPack]

Coaching is a strange profession.

13-3, you're a hero. A losing record, you stink.

You could turn it around and focus on Capers.

He's got a 48-80 record as head coach. What's wrong with the guy? So is he a good coach or a lousy coach based upon his record?

Isn't coaching basically about motivating the players, getting the right players to fit your scheme, and then praying like crazy that they don't get injured?

Success is fleeting, losing is the norm. Even the best coach gets fired one day and his talents considered suspect.

Like I said, it's a strange profession.

Capers has generally been a spectacular DC. When he gets the big chair, he is totally dependent on his GM and OC to build him an offense. When they fail him, he gets canned.

When he's a DC focused only on defense, he gets the job done.

[denverYooper]

Coaching is a strange profession.

13-3, you're a hero. A losing record, you stink.

You could turn it around and focus on Capers.

He's got a 48-80 record as head coach. What's wrong with the guy? So is he a good coach or a lousy coach based upon his record?

Isn't coaching basically about motivating the players, getting the right players to fit your scheme, and then praying like crazy that they don't get injured?

Success is fleeting, losing is the norm. Even the best coach gets fired one day and his talents considered suspect.

Like I said, it's a strange profession.

He could be a good coach but not a great manager. Head coaching also has a significant management component that is not included in being a coordinator.

[Merlin]

Sanders came from the Bates school of defensive schemes. But only Bates had success in the Bates scheme. The Packers defense has been vanilla for many years, even under Bates. It was Bates coaching that made the difference. You can't just say "here is the defensive play book" and not coach the team. Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going. Capers has success the first year he takes over a defense, just like Bates did. There isn't much room to go down so we have to go up and that's where Bates was his first season.

First order of business - Kurt Schottenheimer is GONE! Good riddance and if ANYONE hires this guy back to Green Bay, they need to immediately be fired themselves!

[Zool]

Coaching is a strange profession.

13-3, you're a hero. A losing record, you stink.

You could turn it around and focus on Capers.

He's got a 48-80 record as head coach. What's wrong with the guy? So is he a good coach or a lousy coach based upon his record?

Isn't coaching basically about motivating the players, getting the right players to fit your scheme, and then praying like crazy that they don't get injured?

Success is fleeting, losing is the norm. Even the best coach gets fired one day and his talents considered suspect.

Like I said, it's a strange profession.

Capers has generally been a spectacular DC. When he gets the big chair, he is totally dependent on his GM and OC to build him an offense. When they fail him, he gets canned.

When he's a DC focused only on defense, he gets the job done.

Also he keeps getting the nod for startup franchises. How many expansion teams are any good? Didn't he take the Panthers to the NFCC game in their 2nd year against the Packers?

[Tarlam!]

Sanders came from the Bates school of defensive schemes. But only Bates had success in the Bates scheme. The Packers defense has been vanilla for many years, even under Bates. It was Bates coaching that made the difference. You can't just say "here is the defensive play book" and not coach the team. Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going. Capers has success the first year he takes over a defense, just like Bates did. There isn't much room to go down so we have to go up and that's where Bates was his first season.

Gee, really? And what you said differs from my comments how, exactly?

[mraynrand]

Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going.

Maybe you missed the defensive disaster known as the '2004 season.' Slowit called plenty of blitzes and exotic defenses. But with Hawthorne, Joey Thomas, and Ahmad 'boxing gloves' Carroll back there, the 'exotic' defenses were about as effective as an exotic dance featuring Barney Fife.

[Tarlam!]

Zool, I respect Merlin. I rarely post anything original about football because, frankly, I know my place around here is that of a student. But, in the one time in a millennium that I actually do have an original thought, I'd like at least, ah, you know what. forget it.

[rbaloha1]

Lack of dc experience was also a contributing factor. Poor communication and players loosing faith in the scheme also contributed to Coach Sanders demise.

Obviously the talent exists and Capers is having success that TT and MM expected.

[Merlin]

Sanders came from the Bates school of defensive schemes. But only Bates had success in the Bates scheme. The Packers defense has been vanilla for many years, even under Bates. It was Bates coaching that made the difference. You can't just say "here is the defensive play book" and not coach the team. Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going. Capers has success the first year he takes over a defense, just like Bates did. There isn't much room to go down so we have to go up and that's where Bates was his first season.

Gee, really? And what you said differs from my comments how, exactly?

Not sure where you were going with this. I just posted my thoughts, it had nothing to do with your post.

[Merlin]

Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going.

Maybe you missed the defensive disaster known as the '2004 season.' Slowit called plenty of blitzes and exotic defenses. But with Hawthorne, Joey Thomas, and Ahmad 'boxing gloves' Carroll back there, the 'exotic' defenses were about as effective as an exotic dance featuring Barney Fife.

Oh I remember the "exotic" blitzes, they were so bad it appeared the other team knew they were coming the day before the game. Slowik wasn't original and he was predictable, maybe I should have used those terms instead of vanilla. To me anything predictable is vanilla, generic, or whatever term. I will try to be more clear in the future.

[Waldo]

Sanders came from the Bates school of defensive schemes. But only Bates had success in the Bates scheme. The Packers defense has been vanilla for many years, even under Bates. It was Bates coaching that made the difference. You can't just say "here is the defensive play book" and not coach the team. Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going. Capers has success the first year he takes over a defense, just like Bates did. There isn't much room to go down so we have to go up and that's where Bates was his first season.

First order of business - Kurt Schottenheimer is GONE! Good riddance and if ANYONE hires this guy back to Green Bay, they need to immediately be fired themselves!

Incorrect.

Bates got his scheme from Jimmy Johnson, created for the unique talents of the early 90's Cowboys, with monster DT's, stud pass rushing backups, speed ends, and shutdown corners. He then took the scheme with him to Miami and drafted the players to fill it. When Jimmy was fired Bates carried the mantle of the defense, somehow it has become known as the Bates defense, really though it is Jimmy Johnson's.

It is a scheme built for a team loaded with superior talent. It works great when the team is loaded with superior talent, not so much otherwise. It requires 2 elite shutdown corners, 2 plugger NT's, 2 box safeties that can cover, and 2 OLB's that can plug a gap and cover, and a tackling machine LB, in addition to an assortment of various size pass rushers. Good luck with that.

[Merlin]

I can believe that. Johnson is a brilliant coach, although I think his hair is his best feature.

[pbmax]

I can believe that. Johnson is a brilliant coach, although I think his hair is his best feature.

He become a caricature of his hair and the Cowboys, but his background was on the defensive side of the ball. He was an Assistant Coach at Pitt under Jackie Sherrill when they had Hugh Green and Ricky Jackson (I think it was Ricky Jackson) on defense. I think that is where he met Wannestache, much to the delight of Bears fans everywhere.

And remember Bates (with the talent he was given) looked much better in comparison with Slowik than he did in raw numbers. He essentially stopped the bleeding in the secondary and slowed big plays.

[BobDobbs]

So, if you need all that assorted talent to run it. Maybe they should the Herschel Walker defense.

[SkinBasket]

Slowik was as vanilla as it gets. Slowik would try his all out blitz schemes in the pre-season and then back off once the season got going.

Maybe you missed the defensive disaster known as the '2004 season.' Slowit called plenty of blitzes and exotic defenses. But with Hawthorne, Joey Thomas, and Ahmad 'boxing gloves' Carroll back there, the 'exotic' defenses were about as effective as an exotic dance featuring Barney Fife.

Oh I remember the "exotic" blitzes, they were so bad it appeared the other team knew they were coming the day before the game. Slowik wasn't original and he was predictable, maybe I should have used those terms instead of vanilla. To me anything predictable is vanilla, generic, or whatever term. I will try to be more clear in the future.

Actually, I recall other coaches praising the uniqueness of his blitz scheme after the first game. I thought the problem was that it was too complex for it's own good considering our players couldn't figure it out any better than the opposing team could. It didn't take long before our personnel forced Slowik into a team mandated limited defensive set.

So while the defense ended up playing a very basic scheme, I don't think it was because Slowik was unoriginal. He tried to be too clever with sub par talent.