We deserve it.

[KYPack]

LOL!! And some of you guys wonder why more people don't post here. It's just flamewar after flamewar. Shit gets old ya know?? Especially over the most mundane and retarded bullshit.

Could you point us to a packer board that isn't a raging inferno after a loss..or one that doesn't have combatants regarding Bert, TT, etc.

This is a sincere question.

I'm not dismissing anything that you've said Ty, it's all very true. But this place in particular, since the trading of Mr. Favre to the Jets has been...well, I just can't come up with a quality adjective at the moment. I've lurked here for quite some time, enjoying many posters insights and analysis. But many threads seem to disintegrate into a one-up manship battle, regardless of the topic. This is just an observation of one insignificant outsider. Why can't people just agree to disagree without resorting to personal insults and stupidity?

Sacto,

I don't know. I only go to this board and Jsonline...and it is just about as bad there. I checked out packerchatters...and you are right, i didn't see favre stuff....no OT: Favre thread..maybe that is one reason. Also i didn't see much of anything going on in the forums.

Top reasons according to Ty:

1. Irrational hatred of TT. For some reason, certain fans didn't like him from the beginning. As if it was his fault Sherman got canned from that role.
2. Fired Sherman. Ty thought it was the right thing to do, but hey, it's only an opinion. For some, unforgivable. Years later and they still want to talk about it.
3. Favre. TT was the man in charge when it all went down.
4. Suspect fans. Ty believes in the Green Bay Packers...others seem to have this misguided notion of loyalty to Brett over the pack.
5. Arod. Since TT picked Arod, then went with him after Brett's waffling.....they don't like Arod. They take veiled potshots at him.
6. Winning. Was it chaos last week? Nope. Cause we won. That, to me, proves the point of the above 5. The TT haters, Bert lovers, had to be quiet or risk being outed. But, the minute we lose a game...they can attack under the rubric of a loss.

This whole divided packer nation blows Ty's mind. You have "fans" that hope Bert wins a championship, "fans" wearing other teams colors, etc. We had one poster who claims to be a fan, but whose avatar was a jets hat. Sorry, but Ty doesn't role with any of that.

And, if you want to...and it is your right...Why the fuck would you be on a site called packerrats? The name says what it is about. This ain't footballrats or favrerats...or nflrats.

Ty suffered, after moving to Wisco in 71 for 20 years to taste the sweetness of victory. Ty thinks to many of the younger fans (and some johnny or johnnette come lately) have no appreciation. The don't know what it is like to suffer. They don't know what it takes to be a real fan.

You know, sacto, ty use to believe packer fans were different...maybe even better, but nowadays...i'm starting to think we are fast approaching front runner status or cubbie fans.

And, it is really starting to make Ty sick.

Ty,

That is one king hell post. I agree with it 100%. I had thought of making a similar post, but my energy level is still too low.

We got beat by a team we took too lightly. Hopefully, there was a lesson learned in that ballgame.

We will bounce back, but there is a lot of work ahead of the team.

We don't fire the GM & coach, trade the QB and shoot the rest of the guys.

We get back, re-group and go at 'em again.

We always do, we are the Green Bay Packers.

[Tarlam!]

"We are the Green Bay Packers".

I love how you wrote that KY. I'm all warm, fuzzy and tingly inside.

[KYPack]

"We are the Green Bay Packers".

I love how you wrote that KY. I'm all warm, fuzzy and tingly inside.

Anything for you, pal.

Man I got a piece of paper on the wall that says I can post "We" in these freaky situations.

[Fritz]

Count me in with Ty and KY.

I wonder if it's maybe a generational thing - the younger fans who grew up with Favre as their "only" quarterback, and have seen him portrayed as a near-saint (it's such an American story - the coming-of-age thing and all), seem to have a hard time separating the team from one person on the team.

Myth-making is a part of football, for sure. But it usually doesn't happen right in the midst of one's career, as it has for Favre. I'd be curious to know how it happened with Lombardi - if fans had a difficult time separating the team from their beloved coach. I suspect not, in part because the NFL media coverage was not a 24/7/365 operation as it is now.

So I, as a middle-aged Pack fan going back to 1967, am mystified by those who want the Vikings to win now - what? - because Favre is there. I am mystified by those who want to fire the coach, the GM, and get rid of the players after every single loss.

Like Ty, I was under the illusion that Packer fans were smarter than other fans. I thought they were educated and not knee-jerk because they knew more about football and what it took to have a winning team. Sure, we have our short-term reactions - I don't mind people freaking out on game threads. I do that all the time. Frickin' team! But the relentless negativity that permeates some fans and the joyless joy that seems to come after a loss ("I've been saying this for so long but no one listens to me!") is disturbing to me. Heck, sometimes it seems folks like to grumble after a win.

Look, I'm on record as saying that Thompson has this year - and maybe next, depending upon how this year goes - to get this team into serious and regular contention for the Super Bowl. If the team avoids major injuries this year and still sucks like last year, then it is time to look at the coach and the GM. But I'd like to wait until the season has played out a little more before deciding the whole thing's a failure.

[Tarlam!]

We Are The Green Bay Packers.

I support whoever works or plays or supports the team. Anytime, anywhere. We are the Green Bay Packers.

[Packers4Ever]

i blame the 4th preseason game. rodgers was on fire up t that point. then he plays what? one play in the whole game.

he hasn't looked anywhere near as comfortable as he was before that game

Rodgers isn't a 10 year old, he's qualified and smart enough

to know that 1 game doesn't make a season. Let it go unless

it goes too far. I betcha it won't.

[Packers4Ever]

The o-line is why we lost. I still can't believe Rodgers hasn't turned the ball over in two games with that type of blocking. Get a strong o-line and the offense will be fine. The d didnt even play all that bad. They were on the field for way to long.

I wasn't counting but wasn't Jennings having trouble catching/holding

onto the ball? Driver was having some trouble too and it looked to me

like other receivers were called on - that's just the QB doing what he's

supposed to do, look elsewhere for a bit.

[denverYooper]

Count me in with Ty and KY.

I wonder if it's maybe a generational thing - the younger fans who grew up with Favre as their "only" quarterback, and have seen him portrayed as a near-saint (it's such an American story - the coming-of-age thing and all), seem to have a hard time separating the team from one person on the team.

Myth-making is a part of football, for sure. But it usually doesn't happen right in the midst of one's career, as it has for Favre. I'd be curious to know how it happened with Lombardi - if fans had a difficult time separating the team from their beloved coach. I suspect not, in part because the NFL media coverage was not a 24/7/365 operation as it is now.

Muad'Dib Favre

So I, as a middle-aged Pack fan going back to 1967, am mystified by those who want the Vikings to win now - what? - because Favre is there. I am mystified by those who want to fire the coach, the GM, and get rid of the players after every single loss.

I was born into Packer fandom in 1977, in the middle of the lean years. So I can relate to the pain. In fact, I didn't know anything else for the first 10-12 years of my life wrt the Packers. Times are pretty good now.

Like Ty, I was under the illusion that Packer fans were smarter than other fans. I thought they were educated and not knee-jerk because they knew more about football and what it took to have a winning team. Sure, we have our short-term reactions - I don't mind people freaking out on game threads. I do that all the time. Frickin' team! But the relentless negativity that permeates some fans and the joyless joy that seems to come after a loss ("I've been saying this for so long but no one listens to me!") is disturbing to me. Heck, sometimes it seems folks like to grumble after a win.

This is something I've thought a lot about lately. Is it a defense mechanism? So that you can either be happy that the Packers won or you can be pleased with yourself for being "right"? I don't get that sentiment. Not that it's not valid.

To me, it's more entertaining to be continuously, even if cautiously, optimistic if I'm going to partake. I still approach games with the same hope every week that I did back in the 80s. When it pays off, it makes sticking with the team worth it. But if I'm at the point where I feel the joyless joy that Fritz speaks of, it's time to mow the lawn or walk the dogs.

Professional football is entertainment, bottom line. Fritz, living in Detroit probably gives you perspective on how lucky we are to be Packers fans . One of the better articles I ever read on pro football and life was Mitch Albom's http://mitchalbom.com/journalism/article/5161.

[Pugger]

Sigh. I've dreaded to come on these Packer boards today. I knew there'd be a slew of fire TT/MM and AR sucks threads. I don't think I'll even lurk on the Bubbler for a couple of days. We lost one stinkin game to an AFC team and now we're 1-1. I was upset yesterday after the game but now I'm feeling a little better. I'm hoping this type of loss stings with the guys and they never forget how they felt in that lockerroom afterwards.

If you look back at my posts before this game I feared we might be complacent and come in expecting to win by almost going thru the motions. One team came ready to play yesterday and one did not - and I lay that at the feet of the players as well as the coaches. This happens to every team evey year. Back in 1996 we were on a roll and went on the road to play a very lousy Indy team and got beat! You can't afford to play ANY team in this league like the fellas did yesterday and expect to win. And it wasn't just one phase. It was a complete team implosion and eveyone has to look in the mirror to find the culprit in that loss. I pray they learn from this and take out their frustrations on the Rams next week.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

LOL!! And some of you guys wonder why more people don't post here. It's just flamewar after flamewar. Shit gets old ya know?? Especially over the most mundane and retarded bullshit.

Could you point us to a packer board that isn't a raging inferno after a loss..or one that doesn't have combatants regarding Bert, TT, etc.

This is a sincere question.

I'm not dismissing anything that you've said Ty, it's all very true. But this place in particular, since the trading of Mr. Favre to the Jets has been...well, I just can't come up with a quality adjective at the moment. I've lurked here for quite some time, enjoying many posters insights and analysis. But many threads seem to disintegrate into a one-up manship battle, regardless of the topic. This is just an observation of one insignificant outsider. Why can't people just agree to disagree without resorting to personal insults and stupidity?

Sacto,

I don't know. I only go to this board and Jsonline...and it is just about as bad there. I checked out packerchatters...and you are right, i didn't see favre stuff....no OT: Favre thread..maybe that is one reason. Also i didn't see much of anything going on in the forums.

Top reasons according to Ty:

1. Irrational hatred of TT. For some reason, certain fans didn't like him from the beginning. As if it was his fault Sherman got canned from that role.
2. Fired Sherman. Ty thought it was the right thing to do, but hey, it's only an opinion. For some, unforgivable. Years later and they still want to talk about it.
3. Favre. TT was the man in charge when it all went down.
4. Suspect fans. Ty believes in the Green Bay Packers...others seem to have this misguided notion of loyalty to Brett over the pack.
5. Arod. Since TT picked Arod, then went with him after Brett's waffling.....they don't like Arod. They take veiled potshots at him.
6. Winning. Was it chaos last week? Nope. Cause we won. That, to me, proves the point of the above 5. The TT haters, Bert lovers, had to be quiet or risk being outed. But, the minute we lose a game...they can attack under the rubric of a loss.

This whole divided packer nation blows Ty's mind. You have "fans" that hope Bert wins a championship, "fans" wearing other teams colors, etc. We had one poster who claims to be a fan, but whose avatar was a jets hat. Sorry, but Ty doesn't role with any of that.

And, if you want to...and it is your right...Why the fuck would you be on a site called packerrats? The name says what it is about. This ain't footballrats or favrerats...or nflrats.

Ty suffered, after moving to Wisco in 71 for 20 years to taste the sweetness of victory. Ty thinks to many of the younger fans (and some johnny or johnnette come lately) have no appreciation. The don't know what it is like to suffer. They don't know what it takes to be a real fan.

You know, sacto, ty use to believe packer fans were different...maybe even better, but nowadays...i'm starting to think we are fast approaching front runner status or cubbie fans.

And, it is really starting to make Ty sick.

Ty,

That is one king hell post. I agree with it 100%. I had thought of making a similar post, but my energy level is still too low.

We got beat by a team we took too lightly. Hopefully, there was a lesson learned in that ballgame.

We will bounce back, but there is a lot of work ahead of the team.

We don't fire the GM & coach, trade the QB and shoot the rest of the guys.

We get back, re-group and go at 'em again.

We always do, we are the Green Bay Packers.

thanx man (no...i'm not crying...sniff sniff...got allergies)

[Scott Campbell]

Like Ty, I was under the illusion that Packer fans were smarter than other fans.

Spend 20 minutes in a room full of Bear fans. Your faith will be restored.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Like Ty, I was under the illusion that Packer fans were smarter than other fans.

Spend 20 minutes in a room full of Bear fans. Your faith will be restored.

Setting the bar awfully low.

[bbbffl66]

LOL!! And some of you guys wonder why more people don't post here. It's just flamewar after flamewar. Shit gets old ya know?? Especially over the most mundane and retarded bullshit.

Could you point us to a packer board that isn't a raging inferno after a loss..or one that doesn't have combatants regarding Bert, TT, etc.

This is a sincere question.

I'm not dismissing anything that you've said Ty, it's all very true. But this place in particular, since the trading of Mr. Favre to the Jets has been...well, I just can't come up with a quality adjective at the moment. I've lurked here for quite some time, enjoying many posters insights and analysis. But many threads seem to disintegrate into a one-up manship battle, regardless of the topic. This is just an observation of one insignificant outsider. Why can't people just agree to disagree without resorting to personal insults and stupidity?

Sacto,

I don't know. I only go to this board and Jsonline...and it is just about as bad there. I checked out packerchatters...and you are right, i didn't see favre stuff....no OT: Favre thread..maybe that is one reason. Also i didn't see much of anything going on in the forums.

Top reasons according to Ty:

1. Irrational hatred of TT. For some reason, certain fans didn't like him from the beginning. As if it was his fault Sherman got canned from that role.
2. Fired Sherman. Ty thought it was the right thing to do, but hey, it's only an opinion. For some, unforgivable. Years later and they still want to talk about it.
3. Favre. TT was the man in charge when it all went down.
4. Suspect fans. Ty believes in the Green Bay Packers...others seem to have this misguided notion of loyalty to Brett over the pack.
5. Arod. Since TT picked Arod, then went with him after Brett's waffling.....they don't like Arod. They take veiled potshots at him.
6. Winning. Was it chaos last week? Nope. Cause we won. That, to me, proves the point of the above 5. The TT haters, Bert lovers, had to be quiet or risk being outed. But, the minute we lose a game...they can attack under the rubric of a loss.

This whole divided packer nation blows Ty's mind. You have "fans" that hope Bert wins a championship, "fans" wearing other teams colors, etc. We had one poster who claims to be a fan, but whose avatar was a jets hat. Sorry, but Ty doesn't role with any of that.

And, if you want to...and it is your right...Why the fuck would you be on a site called packerrats? The name says what it is about. This ain't footballrats or favrerats...or nflrats.

Ty suffered, after moving to Wisco in 71 for 20 years to taste the sweetness of victory. Ty thinks to many of the younger fans (and some johnny or johnnette come lately) have no appreciation. The don't know what it is like to suffer. They don't know what it takes to be a real fan.

You know, sacto, ty use to believe packer fans were different...maybe even better, but nowadays...i'm starting to think we are fast approaching front runner status or cubbie fans.

And, it is really starting to make Ty sick.

Why is it irrational to hate TT? We have a losing record under his watch. Forget the Favre crap. He has tried to fix the team on the cheap. The O line has been a problem since he got here. Late round picks are only going go so far. Sometimes you need to get a Hutchinson. And TT won't do that!
Look, Shermy was way over his head as GM. I think we all agree on that. And there was a lot of roster fixing needed. But I don't think it's been fixed. Save for 1 special year, where every bounce went our way, we have been below average.
And as far as Favre, yeah, both sides f#cked that up. My question is, do you think Colts fans cheered for Unitas when he played for San Diego? Or Jets fans when Namath played in Frisco? Or Niner fans wished Montana ill when the relationship fell apart and he played with KC? Of course we all hope GB wins the 2 Minny games. But the hatred of some posters here toward Favre is asinine! And yeah, if we can't win the thing, I guess I'd be OK with BF going out on top. As long as the FIBS don't win!

[MOBB DEEP]

Emotion/"dedication" trumps logic fool.....cant believe pack averaging 3.8 points in the 3rd quarter...what the hell is MM doing at half? eating saturated fat-infested doughnuts to enhance his physique?

TT has to fire fatboy

[Tyrone Bigguns]

LOL!! And some of you guys wonder why more people don't post here. It's just flamewar after flamewar. Shit gets old ya know?? Especially over the most mundane and retarded bullshit.

Could you point us to a packer board that isn't a raging inferno after a loss..or one that doesn't have combatants regarding Bert, TT, etc.

This is a sincere question.

I'm not dismissing anything that you've said Ty, it's all very true. But this place in particular, since the trading of Mr. Favre to the Jets has been...well, I just can't come up with a quality adjective at the moment. I've lurked here for quite some time, enjoying many posters insights and analysis. But many threads seem to disintegrate into a one-up manship battle, regardless of the topic. This is just an observation of one insignificant outsider. Why can't people just agree to disagree without resorting to personal insults and stupidity?

Sacto,

I don't know. I only go to this board and Jsonline...and it is just about as bad there. I checked out packerchatters...and you are right, i didn't see favre stuff....no OT: Favre thread..maybe that is one reason. Also i didn't see much of anything going on in the forums.

Top reasons according to Ty:

1. Irrational hatred of TT. For some reason, certain fans didn't like him from the beginning. As if it was his fault Sherman got canned from that role.
2. Fired Sherman. Ty thought it was the right thing to do, but hey, it's only an opinion. For some, unforgivable. Years later and they still want to talk about it.
3. Favre. TT was the man in charge when it all went down.
4. Suspect fans. Ty believes in the Green Bay Packers...others seem to have this misguided notion of loyalty to Brett over the pack.
5. Arod. Since TT picked Arod, then went with him after Brett's waffling.....they don't like Arod. They take veiled potshots at him.
6. Winning. Was it chaos last week? Nope. Cause we won. That, to me, proves the point of the above 5. The TT haters, Bert lovers, had to be quiet or risk being outed. But, the minute we lose a game...they can attack under the rubric of a loss.

This whole divided packer nation blows Ty's mind. You have "fans" that hope Bert wins a championship, "fans" wearing other teams colors, etc. We had one poster who claims to be a fan, but whose avatar was a jets hat. Sorry, but Ty doesn't role with any of that.

And, if you want to...and it is your right...Why the fuck would you be on a site called packerrats? The name says what it is about. This ain't footballrats or favrerats...or nflrats.

Ty suffered, after moving to Wisco in 71 for 20 years to taste the sweetness of victory. Ty thinks to many of the younger fans (and some johnny or johnnette come lately) have no appreciation. The don't know what it is like to suffer. They don't know what it takes to be a real fan.

You know, sacto, ty use to believe packer fans were different...maybe even better, but nowadays...i'm starting to think we are fast approaching front runner status or cubbie fans.

And, it is really starting to make Ty sick.

Why is it irrational to hate TT? We have a losing record under his watch. Forget the Favre crap. He has tried to fix the team on the cheap. The O line has been a problem since he got here. Late round picks are only going go so far. Sometimes you need to get a Hutchinson. And TT won't do that!
Look, Shermy was way over his head as GM. I think we all agree on that. And there was a lot of roster fixing needed. But I don't think it's been fixed. Save for 1 special year, where every bounce went our way, we have been below average.
And as far as Favre, yeah, both sides f#cked that up. My question is, do you think Colts fans cheered for Unitas when he played for San Diego? Or Jets fans when Namath played in Frisco? Or Niner fans wished Montana ill when the relationship fell apart and he played with KC? Of course we all hope GB wins the 2 Minny games. But the hatred of some posters here toward Favre is asinine! And yeah, if we can't win the thing, I guess I'd be OK with BF going out on top. As long as the FIBS don't win!

You are proving the point.

First, i said that there was irrational hate of TT....that is different than rational hate. There have been people hating on him since day 1. That is irrational. At the risk of being snide...well, fuckit...i am snarky...learn to read, or better yet...comprehend.

1. Winning record since HIS coach was hired. Think you will agree that any manager should get his players and staff.

2. Cheap. How so? Please list the players we passed over because they were expensive. Please list the teams that built differently and through a non-cheap way. Was woodson cheap, pickett cheap, resigning players cheap?

3. Late round picks. Spitz, College, Sitton, and Meredith weren't late round. More irrational fulminating.

4. Hutch. Ok. please point out the lineman we missed out on. Here, i'll help you out as you only need to find guards and centers. Also, please make sure they can work in our blocking scheme.

5. Sherman, agreed. Below average....sorry, the truth says the opposite.

6. Old qbs. Did any of those guys play the games Bert did? Did they threaten retirement year after year. And, i guarantee you that nobody in Baltimore or sanfran was buying montana or unitas jerseys....ok, maybe a few, but they werent' hoping Joe got another title.

Nobody woulda wished BErt ill will if he had shown half the class of your examples. Remember, this is the guy who said he wouldn't play well into his 30s...and said, if GB didn't want him, he would hang it up.

If their is irrational hate of Bert...and i will give that to you....then is there not also irrational love/apologizing for him. Hmmm.