Plaxico gets 2 years

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's illegal to carry concealed firearms in Germany and Australia. Guess what, we have a lot less shootings than you guys do.

Yet, we have far more guns and less violence after soccer games.

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears.

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears.

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!



The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears.

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!



The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

[Gunakor]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears.

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!



The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

Okay, that explains it. Ty is on crack, so he can't make sense of this. Gotcha.

Where can they carry them? A gun show. Hunting. Any place where carrying a gun would seem reasonable, and where the intent in carrying that gun is not to shoot another human being. Otherwise, keep it at home and use it to defend your home, yourself, and your family.

JWalk would have never been robbed if he wasn't a fucking moron who sprayed cheap champagne over everything while wearing/carrying 100 thousand dollars worth of jewelery and carrying 3 thousand dollars cash on him. If you make yourself a target...

You'd really use a gun to ward off the uglies? Is it really that difficult for you to do so without the threat of violence?

Cars: They have a practical everyday purpose for the average citizen. Guns do not. There's a HUGE difference.

[Tarlam!]

What Tarlam! said.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think both of you missed my point. Is it safe? And if it's not safe, should it be allowed? Even if the majority thinks it should be? Your desire to carry a gun into a club I am at is not more important than my safety at that club. Again, this isn't about what the citizens desire. It's about safety, nothing more, nothing less. If a 2/3rds majority voted to enact an unsafe law, that doesn't make the law any more safe. How many accidents like the one Plaxico Burress was involved in have to happen in AZ before they realize how stupid this decision is? Good grief man, somebody is going to get hurt. Or worse. But since they voted for it, I guess it's okay, right?

Safety doesn't trump personal rights. No matter how much you wish it did.

Why not? Why is someone's right to put everyone around them at risk more important than eliminating that risk?

Something about right to arm bears.

Should we eliminate cars? they kill as well (wow, i'm beginning to post like skin).

DO NOT ARM THE BEARS!!!



The right that gives people the ability to bear arms does NOT give them the right to carry them wherever they would like to. Furthermore, that right was given in a different place and time when militias were neccessary. People should have the right to OWN guns, but they shouldn't have a right to carry them wherever they go. There's no good reason to. There are places where it's just not appropirate or safe, and a nightclub is one of them. For crying out loud Ty, why does this not make sense to you?

Why not? If they have a concealed weapons permit...why not?

Which places can they carry them?

Perhaps Jwalk woulda never been robbed if he had on gun on him.

Reason: How about ugly chicks that might wanna fuck? Ty can think of no better reason to have a gun than ward off the advances of some troll at da club.

Sense: Why? Cause ty is on crack.

BTW, you avoided the car scenario. Seems about the same. Remember guns don't kill...people kill (ty is now fully supported by the NRA).

Okay, that explains it. Ty is on crack, so he can't make sense of this. Gotcha.

Where can they carry them? A gun show. Hunting. Any place where carrying a gun would seem reasonable, and where the intent in carrying that gun is not to shoot another human being. Otherwise, keep it at home and use it to defend your home, yourself, and your family.

JWalk would have never been robbed if he wasn't a fucking moron who sprayed cheap champagne over everything while wearing/carrying 100 thousand dollars worth of jewelery and carrying 3 thousand dollars cash on him. If you make yourself a target...

You'd really use a gun to ward off the uglies? Is it really that difficult for you to do so without the threat of violence?

Cars: They have a practical everyday purpose for the average citizen. Guns do not. There's a HUGE difference.

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive.

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

[Gunakor]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive.

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive.

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well.

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

[Gunakor]

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well.

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

We haven't outlawed Tussin yet, but there are plenty of other over the counter meds we have outlawed selling - at least over the counter. Think Coricidin. Or, as the kids called them, "Skittles". Yes, I used to rave way back in my younger days. As far as your gun being open and on your hip, at least I can see it and can choose to go somewhere else if I don't feel safe because of it. Here in Wisconsin, you can't even wear it on your hip and go anywhere you want to. I'll bet our clubs are safer.

JWalk: Acutally Ty, that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't flaunt yourself as a target and you are far less likely to become one. I'm not saying don't go to the club, I'm saying don't go to the club looking like a millionaire, spraying everybody with champagne, asking to be robbed. I remember a thread about this here at PR when it happened, where I and others had already gone over this. If you make yourself a target, don't be surprised if your targeted. Plain and simple. Yes, I know, people who don't wear jewelery get robbed too - but in the case of JWalk, specifically, it was no random robbery. He was targeted because he looked like a cool million. He was targeted because he made himself a target.

Weapon: You are further making my case. You could brain me with a coffee mug, or you could drink coffee out of it. You could hit me with your car, or you could just drive it where you need to go. What are you going to do with a gun other than it's sole intended purpose of shooting someone/something with?

While I love football, and admit it is an especially violent sport, it has nothing to do with guns or weapons or actual violence. It has nothing to do with robberies or nightclubs. It is a sport, and at the end of the game the opposing players meet at midfield and shake hands. It's violent, but it's sportsmanlike. It's not at all what I meant by our facination with guns and weapons and violence. So let me be far more specific. What is everybody's facination with guns, specifically?

As far as your Ty the Greek thread, I'd leave a comment but I'm not a betting man. I'm not a sports fan for the money. I'm simply passionate about the sport itself. Gambling takes the fun out of the sport, just as you alluded to regarding the Packers vs. Rams game. It's a good thread for the appropriate crowd, but it's not for me.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Concealed weapons permit:Not answered

Reasonable: Ah, there is the rub. Your def or mine.

Intent: I don't believe carrying a gun into a club has the intent on shooting someone....the intent is to protect oneself...and pro athletes are increasingly a target....at their house, at the store, wherever.

Jwalk: Oh, so being a dumbass precludes you from defending yourself. Nope. You are blaming the victim. Wearing jewelry, spraying champagne doesn't warrant a robbery...nor a beating. BTW, plenty of people get robbed that were being plenty nice.

Uglies: Well, some are quite aggressive.

Practical: The # of things that can be become a weapon is only limited by your mind.

What reasonable explaination would one have for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place, one that would warrant the issue of a permit to do so? Law Enforcement should be the only ones carrying concealed weapons. Anybody else who thinks they need to do so has to have a reason for wanting to hide it. Can you assure society that those reasons are always going to be legitimate? Of course you can't.

Intent: No, they don't go with the intention of shooting someone, but will do so if confronted. Again, if you are afraid you are going to get into a confrontation where you might need a gun, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Go to a different, safer club. Or don't go to a club at all. AVOID confrontation and you don't need to carry your gun.

Jwalk: No, that doesn't warrant a robbery. Nothing does. But wearing that much bling DOES in fact make you a target for a robbery. Don't look like a million dollars and people won't assume you have a million dollars. Look nice, but don't go that far overboard. And don't act a fool and spray everyone with champagne. Don't make yourself a target and lessen your chances of becoming one.

Uglies: You have a point. But unless they themselves are carrying a gun and using it to coerce you into taking them home, I don't see why you'd need to flash one yourself.

Practical: You're absolutely right, there's no limit to the things that can become a weapon. But as far as guns are concerned, are they ever NOT a weapon? Is there a practical use for guns where they AREN'T a weapon? When I drive my car from home to work and back every day, it's not a weapon. I don't use my car as a weapon. Is there a way to use a gun where the gun is anything but a weapon?

What is everybody's facination with guns and weapons and violence anyway?

Explanation: Protection. Plain and simple. So, concealed is bad...how about open on my hip...everybody can see it. Of course i can't guarantee...nobody can guarantee anything...just like you can't guarantee that the store selling robitussin won't be used by teenagers to get buzzed. But, we don't outlaw selling it.

Jwalk: So, he is a target. Therefore he should have a gun. Certainly you arent' saying that wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to wear ostentatious jewelry. Plenty of upper class white folks ain't gonna cotton to that.

Regardless, you are blaming the victim. And, if Jwalk hadn't sprayed...then is he still asking for it? How much jewelry can he wear? As stated, plenty of people who don't wear jewelry get robbed. Should they not be able to defend themselves?

Uglies: Ty can't risk being forced into sex...some of those women outweigh by at least 100 pounds. ty asked nicely for them to back away..they didn't....i feared for my life. Or, reverse it...your mom..in the parking lot...strange men are approaching....she asks them to leave...they don't...they will rape and murder her....too bad she didn't have a gun.

Weapon: Of course it is a weapon. But, it does't act on its own. I could shoot you in the office...or i could brain you with a coffee mug.

Fascination with guns, weapon, and violence: Um, we are americans. Sad, but true. Funny you pose this on a board devoted to a highly violent sport....are you on soccer boards as well.

P.S. Give Ty the Greek a read...and leave a comment. I worked hard on it...i think you'll enjoy it.

We haven't outlawed Tussin yet, but there are plenty of other over the counter meds we have outlawed selling - at least over the counter. Think Coricidin. Or, as the kids called them, "Skittles". Yes, I used to rave way back in my younger days. As far as your gun being open and on your hip, at least I can see it and can choose to go somewhere else if I don't feel safe because of it. Here in Wisconsin, you can't even wear it on your hip and go anywhere you want to. I'll bet our clubs are safer.

JWalk: Acutally Ty, that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't flaunt yourself as a target and you are far less likely to become one. I'm not saying don't go to the club, I'm saying don't go to the club looking like a millionaire, spraying everybody with champagne, asking to be robbed. I remember a thread about this here at PR when it happened, where I and others had already gone over this. If you make yourself a target, don't be surprised if your targeted. Plain and simple. Yes, I know, people who don't wear jewelery get robbed too - but in the case of JWalk, specifically, it was no random robbery. He was targeted because he looked like a cool million. He was targeted because he made himself a target.

Weapon: You are further making my case. You could brain me with a coffee mug, or you could drink coffee out of it. You could hit me with your car, or you could just drive it where you need to go. What are you going to do with a gun other than it's sole intended purpose of shooting someone/something with?

While I love football, and admit it is an especially violent sport, it has nothing to do with guns or weapons or actual violence. It has nothing to do with robberies or nightclubs. It is a sport, and at the end of the game the opposing players meet at midfield and shake hands. It's violent, but it's sportsmanlike. It's not at all what I meant by our facination with guns and weapons and violence. So let me be far more specific. What is everybody's facination with guns, specifically?

Ban: Exactly. You can't buy a gun over the counter, now can you. Bah blam!!

Safer: Who knows. Concealed or not, it isn't against the law. Surprisingly to Ty..many acquaintances (and ty uses the term acquaintance, not friend) have concealed weapons permits...and others keep them in their car.

Jwalk: Exactly how much is flaunting? BTW, nobody is asking to get robbed just as no women are asking to get raped. What you are essentially saying is that the criminals have won. Change your behavior to suit them. Live in gated communities so as not to be attacked. Sad. Ty will say that wearing bling in a bad section of town is not smart, but sorry, a club is a club.

And, if a bunch of white folks get jacked while wearing expensive watches and jewelry leaving the opera....are they asking for it?

Weapon: I might point it at you and you mite become afraid and leave. BTW, i notice you didn't answer about your moms. Of course it is a weapon...do you think we live in a world that doesn't require weapons? Yikes.

Violence: Not real. My god, football is real violence. Injuries, shortened life span, etc. Modern day gladiators. It is a barbaric sport...and that is why we like it. If you were to do some reading about it's history, you would find that sophisticated men, gentlemen did not partake in it. It was the game of the common man...men that lead violent, working class lives. Not like boxing...the sweet science.

Guns: Part of the american mythology. Guns, cowboys, freedom. Power. Guns..in the movies are often a symbol for men's penis...sexual power. 'Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?' You can see in our culture the glorification of violence...but, sex is bad. gun good, penis bad.

[Gunakor]

Sure Ty. Guns are good. Guns are useful in any setting or any situation, including and especially one where most people are getting drunk and acting irresponsibly. I mean, how else are we going to settle confrontations.

If that's your honest feeling about it then there's nothing left to argue. I disagree, and we'll never agree on that.

You know, there was a story on our local news recently about a young boy trying to rob a bicyclist with a pellet gun. The bicyclist pulled a real gun and shot the boy in the head. This is why guns do not belong on the streets, in the clubs, or most anywhere else. But I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure Ty. Guns are good. Guns are useful in any setting or any situation, including and especially one where most people are getting drunk and acting irresponsibly. I mean, how else are we going to settle confrontations.

If that's your honest feeling about it then there's nothing left to argue. I disagree, and we'll never agree on that.

You know, there was a story on our local news recently about a young boy trying to rob a bicyclist with a pellet gun. The bicyclist pulled a real gun and shot the boy in the head. This is why guns do not belong on the streets, in the clubs, or most anywhere else. But I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it.

I never said one thing about my feelings. I merely answered your questions. the simple fact is that while you have desires and ideas about guns, your arguments against them go against our constitution and succintly are poorly argued. If you can't convince me..and i'm on your side....how you gonna convince others.

Clubs: In AZ as noted, the owner of the bar has the right to not have guns in the club. And, those with guns cant drink. Ty personally thinks having a gun at a club is stupid. But, Ty is a liberal...so, what does ty know.

Ex: Should the bicyclist have allowed another boy to have shot him,not knowing if it was a pellet gun. Seems to me you have a double standard...those wearing bling and acting stupidly are gonna get jacked. They deserve it.

But in this case, the boy acted stupidly...and got jacked..and now you feel bad for him. Ty is a bit confused. Would you feel ok if the biker had dismounted, taken his bike pump and beat him senseless....or killed him?

You need to take the emotion out of your argument. Ty is ideologically with you, but you gotten sharpen your game if you wanna convince gun enthusiasts.

Peace, my brother. Read Ty the Greek....a little more humorous to end your night.

[Gunakor]

It would help if I understood gun enthusiasts first. I don't. So I don't see myself convincing them of anything, but even if I can't, I still know that they're wrong. They could never be convinced anyway.

My example wasn't to call out either the boy or the bicyclist. It was more to show that, referencing your argument that it's part of american history and very much needed in today's society, both the boy and the bicyclist have probably grown up feeling much the same way as you have described. The problem is that people are being taught that what you have argued all evening with me is right, just, and very necessary. Just the way you argued it brought this story to mind. I don't feel bad for the boy. I don't feel bad for the bicyclist. I feel bad that either one of them were raised to believe that they needed to carry a gun in the first place. Your argument that it's part of the American mystique, part of history, glorified in history in fact, might have been part of the problem in this instance. Blame the gun enthusiasts for what happened, I guess.