Rouse released

[SkinBasket]

All I know is that Skin must man-up and face the fact Bigby is "still" the default starter with Rouse gone. LOL. That sucks.

Fuck. At this point I would "man up" if Bigby could play more than two games without his busted ass body giving out. How can a guy that slow hurt himself so much? He's like one of those old Buicks that grandma backs into a telephone pole at 2 MPH and all the trim and the bumpers fall off and the engine catches fire.

Didn't you try and defend him when I called him injury prone?

I have such a long and storied career of defending Bigby, I don't know how I couldn't have.

I think it's more likely, however, that you were making one of your irrational arguments about what constitutes "injury prone." If you can find it, I'll be happy to attempt to reconcile your perceived discrepancy.

[mraynrand]

All I know is that Skin must man-up and face the fact Bigby is "still" the default starter with Rouse gone. LOL. That sucks.

Fuck. At this point I would "man up" if Bigby could play more than two games without his busted ass body giving out. How can a guy that slow hurt himself so much? He's like one of those old Buicks that grandma backs into a telephone pole at 2 MPH and all the trim and the bumpers fall off and the engine catches fire.

Didn't you try and defend him when I called him injury prone?

I have such a long and storied career of defending Bigby, I don't know how I couldn't have.

I think it's more likely, however, that you were making one of your irrational arguments about what constitutes "injury prone." If you can find it, I'll be happy to attempt to reconcile your perceived discrepancy.

You need to leave Rugby alone. Didn't you know he blew up a couple of people in a Divisional game once?

[SkinBasket]

All I know is that Skin must man-up and face the fact Bigby is "still" the default starter with Rouse gone. LOL. That sucks.

Fuck. At this point I would "man up" if Bigby could play more than two games without his busted ass body giving out. How can a guy that slow hurt himself so much? He's like one of those old Buicks that grandma backs into a telephone pole at 2 MPH and all the trim and the bumpers fall off and the engine catches fire.

Didn't you try and defend him when I called him injury prone?

I have such a long and storied career of defending Bigby, I don't know how I couldn't have.

I think it's more likely, however, that you were making one of your irrational arguments about what constitutes "injury prone." If you can find it, I'll be happy to attempt to reconcile your perceived discrepancy.

You need to leave Rugby alone. Didn't you know he blew up a couple of people in a Divisional game once?

Don't forget the sausage he laid out during those couple preseason games that started the legend of the mighty hitting machine.

[mraynrand]

All I know is that Skin must man-up and face the fact Bigby is "still" the default starter with Rouse gone. LOL. That sucks.

Fuck. At this point I would "man up" if Bigby could play more than two games without his busted ass body giving out. How can a guy that slow hurt himself so much? He's like one of those old Buicks that grandma backs into a telephone pole at 2 MPH and all the trim and the bumpers fall off and the engine catches fire.

Didn't you try and defend him when I called him injury prone?

For the record, this 'injury prone' shit is tiresome. Most, if not all injuries are just sheer luck. Now I imagine you'll come back and give me all this shit about how a great athlete can avoid getting hit or that a better player doesn't get in situations that get him injured, blah, blah, blah, but I'm telling you, for the large part, everyone in the NFL is 'injury prone.' That's the reality of the game.

[mraynrand]

All I know is that Skin must man-up and face the fact Bigby is "still" the default starter with Rouse gone. LOL. That sucks.

Fuck. At this point I would "man up" if Bigby could play more than two games without his busted ass body giving out. How can a guy that slow hurt himself so much? He's like one of those old Buicks that grandma backs into a telephone pole at 2 MPH and all the trim and the bumpers fall off and the engine catches fire.

Didn't you try and defend him when I called him injury prone?

I have such a long and storied career of defending Bigby, I don't know how I couldn't have.

I think it's more likely, however, that you were making one of your irrational arguments about what constitutes "injury prone." If you can find it, I'll be happy to attempt to reconcile your perceived discrepancy.

You need to leave Rugby alone. Didn't you know he blew up a couple of people in a Divisional game once?

Don't forget the sausage he laid out during those couple preseason games that started the legend of the mighty hitting machine.

I thought that sausage was laid out by Harrell...

[KYPack]

Well, it's been sittin' on the DVR. I can't say you guys made me look, but I did it. I watched some of the tape from Sunday. We have to play Martin and Collins (if he can go) against St Lou.

When we played Rouse and Bush against the Bengals, it was like 9 on 13. Those two pricks basically helped the opposition. Rouse needed a clue. He was always out of position and when he did venture a guess and try to make a play, he was always wrong. The rawest rook on the PS would at least mange to make a correct play by accident once in awhile.

On the goal line TD to Henry, Rouse never moved. Henry pressed the fade and broke to the post. a subtle double move. Well, Henry should have run the fade, Rouse had no clue, never moved and it was wide open. instead, Henry busted to a nice post route and was equally wide open for 6. Rouse? He had the best seat in the house. He never covered either part of the route. He watched the whole deal from his "seat" on the goal line.

I can only imagine the groans from Capers and Perry when they watched the tape on Monday. It takes a lot for a position coach and the DC to admit their starter should actually be cut from the squad. But after what I saw, it was the only logical decision. Maybe somebody can find a job for Rouse. But it can't be starting at a safety spot on an NFL defense. He doesn't know the first thing about that job.

[Cleft Crusty]

Well, it's been sittin' on the DVR. I can't say you guys made me look, but I did it. I watched some of the tape from Sunday. We have to play Martin and Collins (if he can go) against St Lou.

When we played Rouse and Bush against the Bengals, it was like 9 on 13. Those two pricks basically helped the opposition. Rouse needed a clue. He was always out of position and when he did venture a guess and try to make a play, he was always wrong. The rawest rook on the PS would at least mange to make a correct play by accident once in awhile.

On the goal line TD to Henry, Rouse never moved. Henry pressed the fade and broke to the post. a subtle double move. Well, Henry should have run the fade, Rouse had no clue, never moved and it was wide open. instead, Henry busted to a nice post route and was equally wide open for 6. Rouse? He had the best seat in the house. He never covered either part of the route. He watched the whole deal from his "seat" on the goal line.

I can only imagine the groans from Capers and Perry when they watched the tape on Monday. It takes a lot for a position coach and the DC to admit their starter should actually be cut from the squad. But after what I saw, it was the only logical decision. Maybe somebody can find a job for Rouse. But it can't be starting at a safety spot on an NFL defense. He doesn't know the first thing about that job.

Good catch. Clefty saw the same thing on tape. McGinn blames Chillar for the 3rd and 34, but Rouse also was grossly late in pursuit and when he did arrive, proceded to overrun the play, get blocked, stay on the block, and not even slightly impede the runner. With the more lithe and instinctive Jenkins in pursuit, even a slight impedance of the runner would have stopped that conversion. Rouse was thoroughly horrible in that game. I believe Waldo compared it to Carroll at Philly in '06. That is being charitable.

[Waldo]

The rawest rook on the PS would at least mange to make a correct play by accident once in awhile.

Hence my reasoning when I brought up Underwood as a depth solution.

Even if the guy absolutely sucks and can't tackle nor cover, the only tasks he can effectively do are slow down the guy with the ball and stay in his zone, it would be a marked improvement over what we saw out of Rouse.

Too often the words "solid" and "decent" were used to describe the play of Rouse. I have no idea where people ever got that he's good against the run because it simply isn't true. And never has been.

I actually didn't stumble into Rouse's absolute horribleness against the run until I was doing a study of our run defense stats. Going back to the start of 2006, I charted our run defense performance, by calculating the difference between what we gave up to a team in YPC and what that team averaged on the season in YPC, on a game by game basis. My initial intent was to look at lineman and lineman injuries to see the effect, but I came away with a startling conclusion that I did not expect to find. Our run defense drastically declined when Bigby didn't play, or in games he only played a little early. Every game that Rouse saw significant action in was averaging an almost 2 YPC difference than games that Bigby was in. Most games with Bigby beat the average that the opponent ran for, it averaged out to just under 1 YPC better than they typically do. Rouse on the OTOH, when he was in the lineup we averaged 1 YPC worse than our opponent typically does, and almost never performed better than their season average.

I wish I had the study bookmarked, maybe I'll look for my spreadsheet so I can show you guys the results. I tried and tried and tried to find a correlation between our run D and lineman, and looked at the linebackers, and really could draw no conclusions. Apply the data set of which SS played the bulk of the game to the data, and the results fit like a glove.

I never considered Rouse good against the run, but I bought into the decent hype for a long time. (though I always been convinced that Pickett could play better pass coverage). Once I figured out just how bad Rouse was against the run, he had been #1 on my "guys that should never see the field" list. It is hard to judge run fits from tape for the secondary. Most defenses however are not fundamentally sound against the run unless one of the safeties augments the front 7, either in a contain or tackle role. Rouse was so utterly clueless, many didn't think that he was "at fault" on many plays simply because he wasn't struggling with his fits, he was nowhere to be found and people didn't even realize that Rouse was in fact supposed to be the one making the play. (often that is how it works in the secondary, the guy actually "at fault' is typically not the guy blamed, generally the guy hustling to cover for the guy that screwed up is the guy that is blamed by fans.)

Thank god we got rid of him. LIS, he was a Carroll level liability, and could not be hidden. It is addition by subtraction. Even if the guy that replaces him is terrible, if he simply is where he is supposed to be, he will be a huge improvement.

[Fritz]

The above post makes me feel better about Sunday...and even next Monday!

[Pugger]

The Giants must've been desparate to sign Rouse then...

[KYPack]

Waldo, you an I are having an argument that I ain't in. Underwood could probably play safety. He's tall, rangy, has good instincts, can cover and play the run. He's the anti-Rouse. Where I have the problem is timing. None of this will happen this season. He's a Rook and we need help in the back line this season. I assume that they will play Martin at that spot, hoping that Bigby will get well and be ready to play.

Which I think they will do. Underwood is the back-up at all the dime an nickel corner spots & I'll be happy if he learns those gigs this year.

Long term? Underwood may be the rare bird that can back-up at both safety and corner. That kind of guy is pure gold and can save a roster spot so we can have 4 TE's or 3 FB's or some other crazy deal. I like Underwood and actually saw him play last season for UCincy. He's a tough, instinctive guy who likes to get down and dirty. As opposed to Rouse, who really didn't cover or play the run for shit.

[Fritz]

The Giants must've been desparate to sign Rouse then...

Yes, Pugger, they were. Lost last year's #1 pick to injury and were already way thin at that point.

As was pointed out, 27 teams passed on Rouse before the Giants claimed him.

[Waldo]

Waldo, you an I are having an argument that I ain't in. Underwood could probably play safety..

I think that we are both talking the same thing, but from different angles.

I wholeheartedly agree that Underwood would most likely be absolutely awful out there.

My entire point was that even if that is the case, it may still be an improvement over Rouse.

Even then, no way would he even be considered to start even as a backup (which is where we are, Rouse "starting" was as an injury fill in for Bigby, not as a permanent position).

But he is still there. If we lose Collins, Bigby, Bush, Martin, there is still Underwood, and the new guy.

Most teams in the league are talking mega green when on their #5+ safeties, in fact, most teams don't even have that many. At that level of depth, there is no point in keeping someone that doesn't have a lot of potential to one day develop into a good one.

The general gist I guess of even why I brought him up. Yes, Rouse was that bad. You looked at the tape and confirmed what I said from the beginning of this thread. Rouse was that bad (this is not a phenomenon new to the Cincy game, he was that bad last year too, but almost nobody noticed), that his release is addition by subtraction, that even the rawest of the raw players isn't really a downgrade out there from him.

[rbaloha1]

Waldo, you an I are having an argument that I ain't in. Underwood could probably play safety. He's tall, rangy, has good instincts, can cover and play the run. He's the anti-Rouse. Where I have the problem is timing. None of this will happen this season. He's a Rook and we need help in the back line this season. I assume that they will play Martin at that spot, hoping that Bigby will get well and be ready to play.

Which I think they will do. Underwood is the back-up at all the dime an nickel corner spots & I'll be happy if he learns those gigs this year.

Long term? Underwood may be the rare bird that can back-up at both safety and corner. That kind of guy is pure gold and can save a roster spot so we can have 4 TE's or 3 FB's or some other crazy deal. I like Underwood and actually saw him play last season for UCincy. He's a tough, instinctive guy who likes to get down and dirty. As opposed to Rouse, who really didn't cover or play the run for shit.

Sporting News agrees with you. Underwood and Lee just need reps and experience.