Doom and Gloom @ Packerrats

[Fritz]

Every time I come to Packerrats lately I see nothing but pessimism and criticism. Wow, are people here - most of them - ever negative about the Packers. I've read numerous times now that Minnesota has more talent, that Minnesota has done a better job of building its defensive and offensive lines, that Percy Harvin is a star waiting to happen, that Thompson has failed to have enough veteran backup help, that he loves youth too much, that the GB offensive coaches suck, that the Packers will just slam the ball uselessly into the Williams wall, that the Packers will not even bother to run so the Vikes will tee off, and on and on and on and on.

We're three games into the season. Last year sucked, for sure. This year's team certainly appears to be a work in progress, and as always - for NFL teams - any major injuries can tear up a team.

To me, the jury is still out on this team, and consequently on the coaches and GM. If this team goes 8 -8 with no major injuries, then it may well be that either McCarthy has to go or that both McCarthy and Thompson have to go.

But for so many of you, the jury seems to be in: it's over, the season is lost, we're gonna get trashed by Minny, oh, oh, oh.

Buncha Eeyores out there.

I say wait and see. I say that the Pack can win on Monday night. I say that if the Packers show definite signs of improvement yet still lose a close game (and there are no major injuries), the season's not over yet, either. That won't be fatal.

Let's see how it plays out.

[get louder at lambeau]

That negativity is everywhere, unfortunately. It's very annoying. Many Packer fans love to pick at the team and then say "I told you so." for some reason. Makes them feel better after a loss, I guess.

[bobblehead]

I have been down on our performance so far, but I will also say that our running game starts out slow every year and tends to look better in our first game against chicago or Minnesota....well, this year we played chicago out of the gates, but if we run the ball OK against the queens it will go a long ways towards making me feel better.

Even though I expected better play we are still 2-1 and 1-0 in the division atm, that ain't bad. Minny fans probably aren't happy with HOW they won last week either, they didn't look as awesome against san fran as they did the prior weeks. (classic look ahead performance, but maybe ours was too).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Fritz,

The problem is that those "realists" understand the pack and NFL better than the rest of us.

Certainly you can't make any argument that a team like this could every make the playoffs or make a run at the superbowl.

When Ty thinks of the great Giants team of 2007 and the way they cruised thru the season, ty cries for this packer team. When Ty thinks of the Cardinal juggernaut of last year, ty gnashes his teeth and wails.

[MJZiggy]

Re: Doom and Gloom @ Packerrats

Every time I come to Packerrats lately I see nothing but pessimism and criticism. Wow, are people here - most of them - ever negative about the Packers. I've read numerous times now that Minnesota has more talent, that Minnesota has done a better job of building its defensive and offensive lines, that Percy Harvin is a star waiting to happen, that Thompson has failed to have enough veteran backup help, that he loves youth too much, that the GB offensive coaches suck, that the Packers will just slam the ball uselessly into the Williams wall, that the Packers will not even bother to run so the Vikes will tee off, and on and on and on and on.

We're three games into the season. Last year sucked, for sure. This year's team certainly appears to be a work in progress, and as always - for NFL teams - any major injuries can tear up a team.

To me, the jury is still out on this team, and consequently on the coaches and GM. If this team goes 8 -8 with no major injuries, then it may well be that either McCarthy has to go or that both McCarthy and Thompson have to go.

But for so many of you, the jury seems to be in: it's over, the season is lost, we're gonna get trashed by Minny, oh, oh, oh.

Buncha Eeyores out there.

I say wait and see. I say that the Pack can win on Monday night. I say that if the Packers show definite signs of improvement yet still lose a close game (and there are no major injuries), the season's not over yet, either. That won't be fatal.

Let's see how it plays out.

It's the same as I said in the thread that B started. If we lose, I fear this place will be completely intolerable. The game threads are littered with it and every time someone wants to put something in a positive light or defend a player (Grant actually CAN run behind a decent line, we've seen him do it before. If the line comes together, I see no reason he can't do the same as he has in the past) they get shot down. I will likely be called on the parenthetical Grant example as, of course, he hasn't shown anything since 2007 even if he has.

I get that some folks don't like the current management, but do you have to bring it up sarcastically in EVERY thread? We know how you feel. There is no doubt.

I've said all this before, it's nothing new. We actually had some very good technical football discussions for a while. They don't all have to be rah-rah cheerleading, but can we at least discuss the possibility that this team may be worth something. We're not the Rams or the Raiders. Go read the article in the Perspective thread again if you need to.

[Fritz]

"We actually had some very good technical football discussions for a while. They don't all have to be rah-rah cheerleading..."

And these I enjoy. This thread is not about drinking kool aid, I want to be, like Nixon, perfectly clear on that.

I think KY for example, has made some salient points about the way TT has built his offensive line and how it may negatively affect this team, this year. I think Bretsky's theory of line-building is worthy of discussion, though I think too that several others have made good points about how the loss of NFL-E has perhaps forced teams to keep guys on the roster who are young and completely unprepared. This may be an NFL wide trend and it would be interesting to study other teams and see if they, too, are being forced to keep young, untested blood that is not ready.

And saying "I don't think this team, as it's built, can win," is an interesting point. I don't agree but an explanation as to how it's not built right and what could have been done differently - oh, lovely hindsight! - can be fun.

But there's this weird bitterness that seeps into so many posts these days...this complete lack of awareness that the season is long and much can happen. Ty hits on this beautifully in his post above.

For my part, should it turn out to be so that the Packers develop during the season and play well enough to get into the playoffs and do some damage, I have to be careful not to crow, too - what for? Do I really know, right now, that this team will turn out great? Of course not. The people inside 1265 Lombardi would know more, and they don't even know.

So if the season turns out well, I'm just going to focus on enjoying it with my fellow Packer fans. For years and years I rooted for the Pack alone here in Detroit. I want to celebrate the fact that I am now with fellow Packer fans.

[wist43]

You guys call me Eeyore all the time for simply giving my analysis.

After the 1st game someone started a thread that said... "after this game, no one can criticize the LB'ing"... or something to that effect - I did, and was drawn and quartered, as usual.

I'm not thrilled with the LB'ers, and gave my reasons. Their play has been mediocre. It is an area that needs to be addressed next offseason. TT has stated as much in talking about transitioning to different body types that are a better fit for the 3-4, and I agree.

The other area that needs shoreing up is the OL... that's obvious. I'm hoping Barbre can be the answer at RT, but man... same mistakes over and over... at some point you have to call it a day and move on. The OL inability to protect Rodgers has ground the offense to a halt.

Those things are obvious... just analysis, not "sky is falling".

I'm hopeful the OL can come around... and if they remain deficient, I hope MM will adjust his game plans - to this point he has been fairly stubborn in admitting that Barbre not only needs help, but until he picks it up, the game plans need to be pared down.

At the end of the day... I see upside. I'm hopeful the OL will come around, they have a history of starting slowly under MM, and then picking it up as the season goes on; and, the defense should be average - maybe a little above average, if Capers can put together game plans that maximize strengths, and hide weaknesses.

I started out preseason thinking 9-7... but after seeing their domination in the preseason, became more optimistic... operative word now might be temperance

[pbmax]

I don't want to draw and quarter you wist, but Barbre graded out as the best lineman against the Rams. If McCarthy game plans help for him, he is leaving a few other things uncovered

No doom and gloom at this computer. I am beyond excited. Monday is going to be impossible to get through.

[Pugger]

I'm not down on our LBers. This defense is still a work in progress. I think we'll see improvement and ups and downs for a few weeks as Capers' D is honed by our guys. But if the unthinkable happens and we lose on Monday I will not visit ANY Packer forums for several days afterwards. The TT haters will be unbearable.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm not down on our LBers. This defense is still a work in progress. I think we'll see improvement and ups and downs for a few weeks as Capers' D is honed by our guys. But if the unthinkable happens and we lose on Monday I will not visit ANY Packer forums for several days afterwards. The TT haters will be unbearable.

Sane and sensible.

Ty is a big believer in the 4 seasons mentality. Think it was a cowher thing (ok, pb..waldo..who was it?) At worst we are gonna be 2-2 in the first quarter.

As long as we are 4-4 or close to it, we can make a run.

[denverYooper]

I'm not down on our LBers. This defense is still a work in progress. I think we'll see improvement and ups and downs for a few weeks as Capers' D is honed by our guys. But if the unthinkable happens and we lose on Monday I will not visit ANY Packer forums for several days afterwards. The TT haters will be unbearable.

Sane and sensible.

Ty is a big believer in the 4 seasons mentality. Think it was a cowher thing (ok, pb..waldo..who was it?) At worst we are gonna be 2-2 in the first quarter.

As long as we are 4-4 or close to it, we can make a run.

Didn't George Seifert say he built/planned to win in November? As in, the second half is where the season is made or broken?

[The Shadow]

Don't worry.
I am willing the Packers to win.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm not down on our LBers. This defense is still a work in progress. I think we'll see improvement and ups and downs for a few weeks as Capers' D is honed by our guys. But if the unthinkable happens and we lose on Monday I will not visit ANY Packer forums for several days afterwards. The TT haters will be unbearable.

Sane and sensible.

Ty is a big believer in the 4 seasons mentality. Think it was a cowher thing (ok, pb..waldo..who was it?) At worst we are gonna be 2-2 in the first quarter.

As long as we are 4-4 or close to it, we can make a run.

Didn't George Seifert say he built/planned to win in November? As in, the second half is where the season is made or broken?

Don't know or remember, but it makes total sense.

If we have learned anything the past 2 years...is stay in the race....and then get hot.

Look at the Cards...they sucked pretty much all season..and barely made the playoffs.

[hoosier]

"We actually had some very good technical football discussions for a while. They don't all have to be rah-rah cheerleading..."

And these I enjoy. This thread is not about drinking kool aid, I want to be, like Nixon, perfectly clear on that.

I think KY for example, has made some salient points about the way TT has built his offensive line and how it may negatively affect this team, this year. I think Bretsky's theory of line-building is worthy of discussion, though I think too that several others have made good points about how the loss of NFL-E has perhaps forced teams to keep guys on the roster who are young and completely unprepared. This may be an NFL wide trend and it would be interesting to study other teams and see if they, too, are being forced to keep young, untested blood that is not ready.

And saying "I don't think this team, as it's built, can win," is an interesting point. I don't agree but an explanation as to how it's not built right and what could have been done differently - oh, lovely hindsight! - can be fun.

But there's this weird bitterness that seeps into so many posts these days...this complete lack of awareness that the season is long and much can happen. Ty hits on this beautifully in his post above.

For my part, should it turn out to be so that the Packers develop during the season and play well enough to get into the playoffs and do some damage, I have to be careful not to crow, too - what for? Do I really know, right now, that this team will turn out great? Of course not. The people inside 1265 Lombardi would know more, and they don't even know.

So if the season turns out well, I'm just going to focus on enjoying it with my fellow Packer fans. For years and years I rooted for the Pack alone here in Detroit. I want to celebrate the fact that I am now with fellow Packer fans.

Nice post, Fritz.

[PlantPage55]

Losing that Bengals game, IMO, has caused about 80% of this. If we would have won that game, as ugly as it was, we're 3-0 and the gloom and doom is not nearly as bad.

How fair is that though? If we would have had one more play, and had won the game, that doesn't change how poorly we played for the rest of the game. But, ah, see, losing that game that was supposed to be so easy gives the chicken littles the ability to talk about how awful we are. A week later, the Bengals don't seem as bad as they did before we played them, but the pessimism that was born out of that game still exists, because it had a week in between to fester.

I don't in any way mean to suggest that our loss to the Bengals was "OK" - a loss is never okay. But better it be at the beginning of the season, that came down to the final seconds of the game, to a team that is NOT the joke that we thought they were, than some other type of loss.