kampman

[Partial]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Because most teams employ 2.

However, pb is prolly wrong as they spent a first round pick on a DE this year.

[rbaloha1]

Do not be surprised AK is a Viking next season.

If so, it would be yet another situation that blows up in TT's face.

AK almost left before.

[rbaloha1]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Makes sense to franchise. Imagine Jared Allen and AK.

[rbaloha1]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Please answer TB since you have all the right answers.

[swede]

AK almost left before.

I remember. We spent days on JSO ( I think it was still back in the day) arguing about whether kampmann was average, over-achieving with limited talent, or just a guy.

He was so close to wearing purple, and he would have kicked our ass twice a year for quite a while. It was great that we met the Vikings price.

Sad that he really is such a great guy and a marginal fit for our D.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Please answer TB since you have all the right answers.

Ty doesn't have all the right answers, but we are still waiting for you to address Leaper's point...3.5 in his last 10.

His production is falling. Can you deny the trend?

He is getting old. Can he be a productive player...sure, but elite or very good...doubtful. Smart money is to get what you can for him.

Or figure out a way to make him a situational end so as to keep him fresh...or whatever position you wanna call it under Capers.

Nothing i'm saying detracts from him as a player or his contributions. Players get old.

BTW, you mite notice i didn't agree with Leaper about his effectiveness in our system.

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/63723342.html

[Gunakor]

Is the franchise tag tied to the CBA that expires after this season? Would the Packers even be allowed to tag Kampy if no new CBA is reached before the end of the 2009 season?

[Fritz]

Bring back V-Bob! He used Kampman in a 4-3 as a defensive end.

Now there was a coach who knew how to utilize Kampman's skills!

[Cheesehead Craig]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Agree, the franchise tag will be used. I thought I heard some talking head on ESPN saying that JP is having a terrible season and there's some concerns about him. That could be what PB is refferring to.

[denverYooper]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Lombardi kicks around the notion that Peppers might be a good fit with the Pack, although he thinks it's probably unlikely:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-Should-Panthers-trade-Peppers.html

[Deputy Nutz]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

That is all true. No doubt about it. Which only underscores the fact that he is not powerful and explosive. As you have astutely pointed out, Kampman isn't a natural guy. He has worked at it.

Now, i'm not discrediting him, i'm only looking at him objectively. If he can't get his sacks on his own and needs a better supporting staff...and he is getting older...I think it is time to realize his best days are behind him.

That is no slam on him. I'm simply looking at him the same way we did with Vonnie Holliday. After Reggie retired, holliday suddenly wasn't much of a pass rusher.

You posit that you need 2 pass rushers..and i wouldn't totally disagree, but i would say that Mario Williams, Reggie, Jared Allan...are gonna get there sacks regardless of who is opposite them. I respect the hard work, effort and tenacity he brings...but, those things tend to diminish as one gets older.

But, the real crux was the trend...and it still was going down. And, the question really is do you think he is going to maintain? I don't.

At 31 next year, is AK worth the big dollars? I say no. You say? If we keep the 3-4..then he is what he is now...or we figure out a way to get him more on the line..which i am open to, as i still think he has value.

I guess the real question is do you want to sign him for big dollars in some 4-5 year front loaded contract?

I'd rather spend the money on a safety, OL, CB than on him...and if we can trade him for a player or a decent pick...then i'm in favor of it. I'd rather get rid of player a year early than a year late, and signing a 31 year old DE imho can only lead to problems.

Unless we get him at a hometown discount.

[wist43]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.