kampman

[pbmax]

They're going to franchise him and then trade him. IMO, at least. No way is he a vike. PB, why does Carolina need an end when they have my boy JP?

Agree, the franchise tag will be used. I thought I heard some talking head on ESPN saying that JP is having a terrible season and there's some concerns about him. That could be what PB is refferring to.

Carolina is starting Julius Peppers and Tyler Brayton at DE, the 1st round pick Brown is the backup at RDE behind Peppers and 3rd at LDE. Peppers will be 30 next year and still does not seem to be the same player he was prior to the injury that affected him last year.

Carolina tried to spend money to upgrade the line for this season and so far has had mixed results. This year they have 4 sacks, two by linebackers, one by Peppers and one by tackle Louis Leonard (who isn't on the depth chart and has played only the first two games - might be hurt?).

Peppers plays RDE so Kampman wouldn't unseat him. Not sure if the draft pick can play LDE. The contention about trading him to Carolina was simply to point out that there would be a market for a 4-3 DE if the Packers tag him, which I think they will. Carolina might be a place for him to land as the run that D, are struggling on the D line and have spent money on this position in the past.

Absent a CBA extension, teams will have "one franchise tag and one transition tag or two transition tags to limit the options of unrestricted free agents" in 2010 according to PFT.

[mraynrand]

The one game I saw Peppers play this year, he looked awful. He gave up outside contain several times, was undisciplined and did the 'dancing bear' routine with O-lineman so much that it reminded me of 'Ole Cleedeus. Football players start getting hurt a little bit, get a little bit old, and unless they are Favre playing against the Packers, they start falling apart, sometimes very rapidly (I'm still holding out hope for a swoon from Favre starting Nov 1). Maybe even Kampman is hitting that wall and the crazy 3-4 is just exposing it more clearly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.

Are you suggesting that you haven't seen AK already improve in the 3-4? I sure have, and i think most would agree.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've said all along that Kampman is a natural 4-3 end and would be a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB... I don't see him "improving" in his current role. In his current role, he is miscast.

If Capers gets a clue, he will adjust his game plans to ensure more 4-3 fronts with AK having his hand on the ground, and Raji lined up next to him. My perference would be to blitz like crazy out of the 3-4, but they don't have the personnel to get home. As I've said, it is going to take a couple of years to transition to 3-4 personnel.

Not sure I see that happening though... I acknowledge that Capers is a good coach, but I've always seen him as being too conservative.

As for next year... don't see them franchising AK. He'll simply walk, and I expect him to land a decent FA contract; not top $$$, but above avg.

Are you suggesting that you haven't seen AK already improve in the 3-4? I sure have, and i think most would agree.

I'd like to think he has. He's a solid smart player. Maybe I'm not looking at his play correctly. Im just not hearing his name as having made a play.

[wist43]

Well, the Packers have what? 5 sacks as a team in 4 games??? AK has one??? No where to go but up from there.

You guys keep trying to put lipstick on a pig, but the bottom line is AK is a 4-3 End trying to play OLB in a 3-4... no other way to slice that one fellas.

I'm an AK supporter, always have been... he's outperformed what my expectations for him were, that's for sure; but, again, he is what he is - a 4-3 End... and a damn good one at that. As a 3-4 OLB??? he's below average.

Does he sound happy about the change in scheme??? Of course not.. it doesn't fit his game. Clearly, he'll be playing somewhere else next year... hopefully not the Vikings

[Fritz]

Somewhere out there, somewhere, is some sick dude who likes lipstick on pigs and is offended by the expression...

[denverYooper]

Somewhere out there, somewhere, is some sick dude who likes lipstick on pigs and is offended by the expression...

[Deputy Nutz]

The guy is powerful and explosive as 4-3 de.

Really? I didn't see it last year. He wore down as the year went on. Had 9.5 sacks, but only 3.5 in the last 10 games.

He has NEVER been explosive as a 4-3 DE. The guy works his ass off and beats people through technique and a constant motor, not explosive athletic ability.

AK has disproved that stereotype over the years. Possesses power and explosive moves like Reggie White and Howie Long.

Agree with your description early in Ak's career -- that can only take you so far. AK is still a premier rusher if used properly and a fish out of water if asking to drop in coverage.

this is an example of love/homerism taking over. At no point have you countered his 3.5 sacks in the last 10 games.

AK is 31 next November...we are nearing the end. The trend is there to be seen..15, 12, 9.

Long was done at 33. Ak isn't near the physical freak Reggie was and Reggie was in decline during his time here. Take away his final season, an anomaly if there ever was one..and you have a guy who was a 10 sack guy..and who played with a dominant line.

Well he did wear down. Like I said in another thread most teams need two good pass rushers on the d-line for one to shine. KGB never recovered from injury and was cut through the midway point of last year. Jenkins tore his pectoral muscle in the Cowboy game which was week 3. The Packers defensive line never recovered losing the top two pass rushers at the other end spot. Pickett is no pass rusher and Jolly is a decent inside rusher, but was also recovering from shoulder surgery. There was no Corey Williams because he was traded.

So at this point please feel free to tell me where the pass rush was going to come from outside of Aaron Kampman? Really tell me. Mike Montgomery? Jeremy Thompson? You have to be kidding me.

That is all true. No doubt about it. Which only underscores the fact that he is not powerful and explosive. As you have astutely pointed out, Kampman isn't a natural guy. He has worked at it.

Now, i'm not discrediting him, i'm only looking at him objectively. If he can't get his sacks on his own and needs a better supporting staff...and he is getting older...I think it is time to realize his best days are behind him.

That is no slam on him. I'm simply looking at him the same way we did with Vonnie Holliday. After Reggie retired, holliday suddenly wasn't much of a pass rusher.

You posit that you need 2 pass rushers..and i wouldn't totally disagree, but i would say that Mario Williams, Reggie, Jared Allan...are gonna get there sacks regardless of who is opposite them. I respect the hard work, effort and tenacity he brings...but, those things tend to diminish as one gets older.

But, the real crux was the trend...and it still was going down. And, the question really is do you think he is going to maintain? I don't.

At 31 next year, is AK worth the big dollars? I say no. You say? If we keep the 3-4..then he is what he is now...or we figure out a way to get him more on the line..which i am open to, as i still think he has value.

I guess the real question is do you want to sign him for big dollars in some 4-5 year front loaded contract?

I'd rather spend the money on a safety, OL, CB than on him...and if we can trade him for a player or a decent pick...then i'm in favor of it. I'd rather get rid of player a year early than a year late, and signing a 31 year old DE imho can only lead to problems.

Unless we get him at a hometown discount.

I do not see or want the Packers to spend money on Kampman if they are going to use him as a 3-4 OLB unless he drastically improves from his performance as of right now.

Mario Williams had a good year last year but they also drafted that young buck out of Louisville, I can't think of his name or if he was that productive last year.

Jared Allen has the Williams at defensive tackles, especially Kevin Williams who is a heck of a pass rusher up the middle.

I don't think it really matters, the other key point is that Kampman played like 65 snaps a game last year. He never came off the field due to lack of depth at defensive line and especially at end. One other reason he wore out at the end of last year.

Kampman being 31 is a red flag. If he signs a long term deal you can't expect him to last the entire contract.

I am also not one of those people that believes that the organization has to be loyal to Packer people.

[Partial]

I don't think Kampman is in the top tier of ends but he is right below them. I think he'd be a very good player, but like all guys they need a rest every now and again.

I suspect they'll try to tag him and trade him for a #2. Somebody would give up a #2 if they think tehy have a shot to contend, especially if it's a low 2.

Pack need to draft a T, S, DL, LB and CB next year. Get two tackles spend the rest of the picks on D.

[Zool]

RB

[Sparkey]

Three tags instead of one

Currently, a team can put either a franchise tag (average of the top five salaries at his position) or a transition tag (average of the top ten salaries at his position) on any one player on the club to protect the team from losing the unrestricted free agent. If the NFL gets to an uncapped year in 2010 and 2011, teams will have use of one franchise tag and two transition tags. So not only would none of the young players with less than six years of service be free, but now the top three players who are eligible for free agency on a roster can be protected.

If this situation existed in 2008, a team like Pittsburgh -- which used a transition tag to retain OT Max Starks -- could have also tagged Alan Faneca with either a transition or franchise tag if it so desired. If every team in the league used one or two tags, not even the three they would possess, it could take another 40 quality free agents off the market.

If next year is uncapped, there will be nothing available in the FA market for linemen on either side of the ball

[pbmax]

Three tags instead of one

Currently, a team can put either a franchise tag (average of the top five salaries at his position) or a transition tag (average of the top ten salaries at his position) on any one player on the club to protect the team from losing the unrestricted free agent. If the NFL gets to an uncapped year in 2010 and 2011, teams will have use of one franchise tag and two transition tags. So not only would none of the young players with less than six years of service be free, but now the top three players who are eligible for free agency on a roster can be protected.

If this situation existed in 2008, a team like Pittsburgh -- which used a transition tag to retain OT Max Starks -- could have also tagged Alan Faneca with either a transition or franchise tag if it so desired. If every team in the league used one or two tags, not even the three they would possess, it could take another 40 quality free agents off the market.

If next year is uncapped, there will be nothing available in the FA market for linemen on either side of the ball

Second part is unclear. Of course some teams will spend a fortune, but others will fall well below the salary cap floor.

However, since it will take 6 years to become an UFA, there pool will be shallower than normal as lots of 4 and 5 year guys will be RFAs.

First part is different than I have heard. I understood that teams can only choose to use two tags whether it is one of each (franchise, transition) or two transitions.

[pbmax]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

[rbaloha1]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

What about the Broncos in the 3-4 -- Holiday and Kenny Peterson both starting and playing well. Recall a board member clamoring for Holiday.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

In other Carolina Panther depth chart news, Na'il Diggs still starting.

And former Badger Nick Hayden is starting.

What about the Broncos in the 3-4 -- Holiday and Kenny Peterson both starting and playing well. Recall a board member clamoring for Holiday.

Kenny played HS ball with McDaniels.