Packers Linebackers

[mission]

Re: Packers Linebackers

LOL, think about this. This coming offseason, Kampmann signs with Minnesota. (Allen, Williams, Williams, Kampmann) Would that be the sickest D-Line in the league ?

This is exactly what I am thinking due to MN and Kamp's interest earlier.

Wishful thinking I bet.. Wasn't that interest before mn invested a ton of money in Allen? I can't imagine that they could pull that off financially unless someone takes a huge cut or kampmans market value is so deflated from a potentially poor (statistically) season.

[MadScientist]

Re: Packers Linebackers

LOL, think about this. This coming offseason, Kampmann signs with Minnesota. (Allen, Williams, Williams, Kampmann) Would that be the sickest D-Line in the league ?

This is exactly what I am thinking due to MN and Kamp's interest earlier.

Wishful thinking I bet.. Wasn't that interest before mn invested a ton of money in Allen? I can't imagine that they could pull that off financially unless someone takes a huge cut or kampmans market value is so deflated from a potentially poor (statistically) season.

MN's finances are not the deciding factor here. The Packers will franchise Kampy and control who they trade him to, unless there is a dramatic change during the rest of the year.

I know Capers likes the 2-4 look for the nickel, but would it be that bad to show a 4-2 from time to time, let Kampy pin his ears back and charge the QB?

[Scott Campbell]

Poppinga is another example of playing a 3-4 defense with 4-3 players. Poppinga was a decent 4-3 strong side linebacker against the run. Now he is basically useless. Which is 90% his fault for being a mormon.

He played at BYU. I don't like him.

[SkinBasket]

Chillar and Matthews are playmakers that need to be on the field the majority of snaps.

What play has Chillar made? Other than giving up TDs in coverage and being smothered one-on-one? I wish I had remembered to record the game, because I would like to go back and try to find something he did that could be considered beneficial, much less "playmaker" material.

[rbaloha1]

Chillar and Matthews are playmakers that need to be on the field the majority of snaps.

What play has Chillar made? Other than giving up TDs in coverage and being smothered one-on-one? I wish I had remembered to record the game, because I would like to go back and try to find something he did that could be considered beneficial, much less "playmaker" material.

Chillar has one sack. Unsure of tfl. Involved in the Matthews td.

[3irty1]

I'm actually pretty ok with the LB personnel. I think the only player that is totally miscast is Poppinga. I actually like Poppinga but he's not working out in this scheme. Kampman isn't worse than he was for the last ten games of last year. He's a smart player and he's still a handful to block. Hawk looks good. Barnett, well I'm holding off on judging Barnett. Chillar could be worse. If Bishop played against real players he'd probably suck.

[Guiness]

Has J Thompson seen the field yet?

[bobblehead]

For how much Hawk's #'s are supposed to hurt.....

They're not.

He's #2 on the team in tackles, and has played a lot less snaps than Chillar, who has 3 more (and 3 more TD receptions given up).

Is there anything that Chillar doesn't suck at? At best the guy is ridiculously inconsistent.

Since its my job to defend chillar, he gave up 2 TD's playing safety cuz we don't have any on the roster.

I won't gripe too much about our LB's this week since they weren't the problem. I would say they all played decent based on what I saw. Can't complain about the pass rushing from them since we didn't do enough of it. Can't gripe about peterson getting shut down.

I'll go back and use the argument you used against me before the season waldo...If Hawk is such a stud and Chillar is such a joke why is the coaching staff using Chillar more and more, and Hawk less and less??

[bobblehead]

Yes, the players are miscast... and Kampman will be sprinting for the door as soon as FA opens up next year; but, the change needed to be made IMO.

You can do so much more with a 3-4 than you can with a 4-3, although the transition is going to be painful from time to time. As I've been saying since they announced they were changing schemes, we're going to have to expect growing pains.

With the exception of this years draft class, they drafted all of their current players to play in a 4-3 - and most of them sucked in that... it is unrealistic to think that average, to below average players best suited for a 4-3, could be plugged into a 3-4 and expect them to excel.

Beyond that, I do have concerns about Capers... good coach, but he has a tendency to go conservative. In his defense, what we're seeing in terms of his conservative game plans and play calling could be a function of the miscast personnel, but I haven't been overly impressed with his job performance thru the first 4 games. Capers is no Rex Ryan, that's for sure.

yea, lets compare the resume of Dom Capers vs. Rex Ryan and see who comes out on top. I still think MM is reigning in the real Dom.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Packers Linebackers

Anyone who has dvr'd the game, you have to go re-watch the play where Favre had like 7.3 seconds to throw the ball. They show an angle from behind the Vikings line and if you watch Barnett, it is freakin hilarious.

He steps in, like a fake rush (but a terrible fake) then steps back a few steps, turns in a circle (lookin around like wth am I supposed to be)steps up then goes back again. Chiken with his head cut off type of play.

On that note, Barnett is not suited to play in a 3-4 defense. He is best asset is (or was) his speed and ability to run sideline to sideline and make plays. However, in a 3-4 the ilb's do not need to run side to side. They need to be agressive and meet plays head on and use their strength to attack. Yes, he lead the team in tackles vs Minny, but how many were 4 or more yards downfield ?

Barnett is totally miscast in his current role. In my opinion, the best LB group for the pack would be Chillar, Bishop, Hawk and Matthews.

Matthews shows flashes of what he will eventually be capable of doing, once he gets a few more games under his belt.

Hawk is now the lb that does the grunt work inside. So his tackle numbers will suffer, but he rarely is out of place.

Kampmann was a great DE in a 4-3, he currently a liability in Capers 3-4 (at least based on how he is being used at this point.) Chillar has shown he is a better blitzer, so far.)

Snake totally agrees. Barnett is horrible in this new 3-4. Bench his ass (fuck his contract) and bring up my man Bishop. Barnett in 4 games looks clueless. Matthews (a rook mind you) makes plays...Hawk is ok. Chillar is a beast. Kampy is SO FUCKING LOST. Bring up the Bishop. What do they have to lose?

[Gunakor]

Re: Packers Linebackers

Anyone who has dvr'd the game, you have to go re-watch the play where Favre had like 7.3 seconds to throw the ball. They show an angle from behind the Vikings line and if you watch Barnett, it is freakin hilarious.

He steps in, like a fake rush (but a terrible fake) then steps back a few steps, turns in a circle (lookin around like wth am I supposed to be)steps up then goes back again. Chiken with his head cut off type of play.

On that note, Barnett is not suited to play in a 3-4 defense. He is best asset is (or was) his speed and ability to run sideline to sideline and make plays. However, in a 3-4 the ilb's do not need to run side to side. They need to be agressive and meet plays head on and use their strength to attack. Yes, he lead the team in tackles vs Minny, but how many were 4 or more yards downfield ?

Barnett is totally miscast in his current role. In my opinion, the best LB group for the pack would be Chillar, Bishop, Hawk and Matthews.

Matthews shows flashes of what he will eventually be capable of doing, once he gets a few more games under his belt.

Hawk is now the lb that does the grunt work inside. So his tackle numbers will suffer, but he rarely is out of place.

Kampmann was a great DE in a 4-3, he currently a liability in Capers 3-4 (at least based on how he is being used at this point.) Chillar has shown he is a better blitzer, so far.)

Snake totally agrees. Barnett is horrible in this new 3-4. Bench his ass (fuck his contract) and bring up my man Bishop. Barnett in 4 games looks clueless. Matthews (a rook mind you) makes plays...Hawk is ok. Chillar is a beast. Kampy is SO FUCKING LOST. Bring up the Bishop. What do they have to lose?

How many more times does Chillar have to get beat to a bloody pulp in pass coverage before you agree he's not a beast? The guy isn't that great. Sure he makes plays, some for the Packers, some for the Packers opponent. The worst team in the NFL - using a backup QB mind you - made Chillar look like a pee-wee backup. I don't think he deserves all the credit he's getting.

I'd bring up Bishop in place of Barnett from time to time, that's worth a look. But as far as Kampy goes, who BTW is amongst the team leaders in tackles despite looking lost, who would you replace him with? Poppinga? Jeremy Thompson? We're kinda stuck there, for this year anyway. And we had better pray that Kampy doesn't get himself injured for any length of time.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Packers Linebackers

Anyone who has dvr'd the game, you have to go re-watch the play where Favre had like 7.3 seconds to throw the ball. They show an angle from behind the Vikings line and if you watch Barnett, it is freakin hilarious.

He steps in, like a fake rush (but a terrible fake) then steps back a few steps, turns in a circle (lookin around like wth am I supposed to be)steps up then goes back again. Chiken with his head cut off type of play.

On that note, Barnett is not suited to play in a 3-4 defense. He is best asset is (or was) his speed and ability to run sideline to sideline and make plays. However, in a 3-4 the ilb's do not need to run side to side. They need to be agressive and meet plays head on and use their strength to attack. Yes, he lead the team in tackles vs Minny, but how many were 4 or more yards downfield ?

Barnett is totally miscast in his current role. In my opinion, the best LB group for the pack would be Chillar, Bishop, Hawk and Matthews.

Matthews shows flashes of what he will eventually be capable of doing, once he gets a few more games under his belt.

Hawk is now the lb that does the grunt work inside. So his tackle numbers will suffer, but he rarely is out of place.

Kampmann was a great DE in a 4-3, he currently a liability in Capers 3-4 (at least based on how he is being used at this point.) Chillar has shown he is a better blitzer, so far.)

Snake totally agrees. Barnett is horrible in this new 3-4. Bench his ass (fuck his contract) and bring up my man Bishop. Barnett in 4 games looks clueless. Matthews (a rook mind you) makes plays...Hawk is ok. Chillar is a beast. Kampy is SO FUCKING LOST. Bring up the Bishop. What do they have to lose?

How many more times does Chillar have to get beat to a bloody pulp in pass coverage before you agree he's not a beast? The guy isn't that great. Sure he makes plays, some for the Packers, some for the Packers opponent. The worst team in the NFL - using a backup QB mind you - made Chillar look like a pee-wee backup. I don't think he deserves all the credit he's getting.

I'd bring up Bishop in place of Barnett from time to time, that's worth a look. But as far as Kampy goes, who BTW is amongst the team leaders in tackles despite looking lost, who would you replace him with? Poppinga? Jeremy Thompson? We're kinda stuck there, for this year anyway. And we had better pray that Kampy doesn't get himself injured for any length of time.

Chillar looks good in pash-rush. I agree he has got beat on pass-coverage. Doubted many beside me saw it (as most praise him....and I crucified him before this year....I was only trying to appease them...but he's better than Barnett now). Popps (always hated him.....he still is worthless) Jeremy Thompson (always hated him.....dude is even more worthless)....Kampy...I think he HAS so much talent.....THEY DON"T PLAY HIM RIGHT. Line him up and let him rush with his hand down. That is BS watching him half-ass rush (not his fault) and pass-protect. RUSH KAMPY!!!!

Either way, Kampy is not gonna get enough deece snaps to do shit this year the way they use him. Barnett is lost. Chillar is pretty good. Poops is poop. Matthews is deece. Bishop can hit/react with RB's and QB's. Play the bastard. Even MM said it. It's all about contracts and BS/hierarchy. Dude could/should be a force in this type of 3-4. Barnett was my point. Worthless so far in 4 games. Name a play (anyone) where he did anything? Bishop should play now.

[Gunakor]

Kampy would fail as a DE in a 3-4. He's not big enough. He wasn't big enough last season before he trimmed down to play OLB. Snake, the OLB's in a 3-4 are the edge rushers. Kampy is playing the only position he could play in a 3-4. If he doesn't fit, if he can't do it, tag him and trade him in the offseason. But he can't play on our DL in a 3-4. He'd look worse than he is now.

[SnakeLH2006]

Kampy would fail as a DE in a 3-4. He's not big enough. He wasn't big enough last season before he trimmed down to play OLB. Snake, the OLB's in a 3-4 are the edge rushers. Kampy is playing the only position he could play in a 3-4. If he doesn't fit, if he can't do it, tag him and trade him in the offseason. But he can't play on our DL in a 3-4. He'd look worse than he is now.

I agree, Gun. Only offering some sympathy to the Kampy apologizers. I agree, this is what it is, Kampy is really just a guy at OLB. If he put his hand down, maybe he'd get some sacks (but doubt it cuz he's really slimmed down....just look at him...to play OLB). It's a joke as our scheme (3-4) is good, but it took our best pass-rusher (34 sacks the last 3 years) and made him a guy at best. What is that? At least let him put his hand down and pass-rush, as he gets no burst hands-up....thus, the point. Kampy has no value but average doing what he's doing. I was amazed at his pass-rush at 275-280 at DE in years past. At what (255 or so and slim) he's done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the first 4 games for a pass rush with his hands up at OLB, nor has Barnett made ONE PLAY.

It's give and take. Some guys look better (Matthews, Chillar) some look far average (Barnett, Kampy). It's a horse a piece. Everything looked great in preseason, but Barnett looks like he should be benched for a playmaker (Bishop) and Kampy looks lost in pass-coverage and offers virtually NO pass-rush like he did at DE vs. OLB where he is now.

[Gunakor]

Kampy would fail as a DE in a 3-4. He's not big enough. He wasn't big enough last season before he trimmed down to play OLB. Snake, the OLB's in a 3-4 are the edge rushers. Kampy is playing the only position he could play in a 3-4. If he doesn't fit, if he can't do it, tag him and trade him in the offseason. But he can't play on our DL in a 3-4. He'd look worse than he is now.

I agree, Gun. Only offering some sympathy to the Kampy apologizers. I agree, this is what it is, Kampy is really just a guy at OLB. If he put his hand down, maybe he'd get some sacks (but doubt it cuz he's really slimmed down....just look at him...to play OLB). It's a joke as our scheme (3-4) is good, but it took our best pass-rusher (34 sacks the last 3 years) and made him a guy at best. What is that? At least let him put his hand down and pass-rush, as he gets no burst hands-up....thus, the point. Kampy has no value but average doing what he's doing. I was amazed at his pass-rush at 275-280 at DE in years past. At what (255 or so and slim) he's done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the first 4 games for a pass rush with his hands up at OLB, nor has Barnett made ONE PLAY.

It's give and take. Some guys look better (Matthews, Chillar) some look far average (Barnett, Kampy). It's a horse a piece. Everything looked great in preseason, but Barnett looks like he should be benched for a playmaker (Bishop) and Kampy looks lost in pass-coverage and offers virtually NO pass-rush like he did at DE vs. OLB where he is now.

I am with you on Barnett. His mind isn't where it needs to be, even if his knee is. But leading up to the Vikings game Kampy was the team leader in tackles, if I'm remembering correctly, which means he's done his job. His job isn't to rush the passer on every down - that's the whole point. The 3-4 is to cause confusion. You don't know if Kampy is coming from one side or Matthews/Chillar is coming from the other. You don't know if Hawk/Barnett/Bishop is gonna collapse the middle, or if Woodson is gonna rush from the corner. You just don't know, and that's the point. I hear what you're saying about Kampy being miscast, and it might end up in his being traded for someone who does fit the scheme. But you aren't gonna go away from the scheme you've been practicing for months because of one player. If Kampy is just a guy in the 3-4 then that's what he is. Trade him for someone who isn't. Or trade him for someone who can help elsewhere. But it's not Dom's fault that Kampy isn't the greatest OLB for a 3-4 team.

However, it might be Dom's fault that they don't blitz more than they do. That much has puzzled me. Kampy would get better pressure if, say, he AND Hawk ran an overload blitz on the poor RT that Kampy is lined up across. That's been my beef with this defense. The playcalling. TURN UP THE HEAT DOM!!!