Packers' Rodgers still a work in progress

[Brandon494]

A very weak article but without a doubt there are still key questions about Rodgers. In PS, he looked great. To me this season he has looked pretty poor outside of a few key plays.

It would be a rare QB that would look good whilst the line looks bad. I just don't get why you do not understand this...

Rodgers is NOT the problem.

I understand what you're saying I just do not agree with it entirely.

If he is so aware of where the next hit is coming from as you claim, why is he not unloading the ball in this case or scrambling to get out of the pocket and unload the ball?

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Play calling can easily compensate for the line play, so MM shares some of the blame.

Dude seriously? Ben Big also have the #1 defense in the league and as bad as his O-line is it is not as bad as what Rodgers has had to play with this season. You just dont like Rodgers no matter what so its no point of even arguing with you.

[Brandon494]

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. .

QFT

Insane how his accomplishments are always minimized; FIVE nfccg's, 4 straight

+1, he does always choke in the big game though.

[Partial]

I like Rodgers a lot. That's a misnomer. No one is discussing the defensive team around him. Big Ben has had a ton of offensive success with a really bad line. Why? Well, a slew of reasons, but that is highly irrelevant. The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

That said, BR is a lot bigger than Rodgers and much more of a playmaker. He breaks tackles that are easy sacks on Rodgers. That said, BR still takes a lot of sacks that he probably shoudn't, much like Rodgers, but the difference is BR is a huge dude who's body can handle it. Hopefully Rodger's body can handle it, too.

[Brandon494]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/63965197.html

I saw that this morning and it really could go either way to who is the better QB. Cutler has a stronger arm and more experience under his belt. I think AR is a better leader and rarely turns over the ball but still puts up the same numbers as Cutler. Both are also very good on their feet. I just like Cutler is a punk ass bitch which even the Bears beloved LB said.

[retailguy]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

[Partial]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

I guess the fundamental difference is I don't consider Rodgers a young QB. There is a huge difference between starting as a rookie (remember how lost Rodgers looked) compared to starting in your 4th year. You're not a rookie, then, and you're not a first year player. Half of succeeding in the NFL is learning how to take care of your body and adjusting to the schedule. He had three years to learn how to do that.

[retailguy]

The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

Partial, I said as a "youngster" and also talked about "developing" a young QB. I don't count Ben because he's not in his 1st couple of years. Give me a guy who played behind a line that stunk in his 1st two years and played well?

I've got two. Peyton Manning in his first year that he was 3-13, and Rodgers last year. Other than that, I've got nobody. At some point, a bad OL takes it's toll on the productivity of the QB, and that's where I believe we are now.

I guess the fundamental difference is I don't consider Rodgers a young QB. There is a huge difference between starting as a rookie (remember how lost Rodgers looked) compared to starting in your 4th year. You're not a rookie, then, and you're not a first year player. Half of succeeding in the NFL is learning how to take care of your body and adjusting to the schedule. He had three years to learn how to do that.

How do you learn about trusting or not trusting your protection when you are sitting on the bench? How do you simulate what you will do and how you will react when you are sitting on the bench?

In some ways he's not a young QB, and in some ways he is. There is no substitute for game experience for some things. This is one of those things, I think.

Your expectations on Rodgers are SKY HIGH. You expect more out of him than any other QB in the league. You catch a lot of flak for your inability to see this. And I think it's justified.

Have you watched some of these other QB's? Seen Jake Delhomme lately? How about Trent Edwards? Maybe Matt Hasselbeck? What do you think about David Garrard? Those guys are having protection issues this season also. Some with substantially more experience than Rodgers. None are playing particularly well. Hass has been hurt, the rest have struggled, mightily. There is a big difference in Carson Palmer when he gets protection and when he doesn't. Same for Eli Manning.

[rbaloha1]

After watching #4 its apparent #12 is still in the developing stage. Needs to improve reading coverage quicker and anticipating receiver routes.

Still #12 is on the verge of being a solid consistent pro bowler.

[bobblehead]

RG,

Do you think it is:

a) TT's failure to draft adequate talent for the line
b) poor OL coaching
c) the fact that they replaced 60% of the starting line this year and they need extra time to gel?

I'm going with poor coaching. No way guys can whiff the way they are if the coaching were good. Even bad OL don't whiff like I see our guys whiff. Its Babre about half the time, but I have seen Clifton, College and Spitz whiff on a grand scale as well. I still think its lack of aggressive practice. We go through the motions in practice (for positioning and such) and therefore we do the same in games. Its human nature, you play the way you practice.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Big Ben got lots of defensive help when he won the SB.

2005 - #3 in ppg and #4 ypg in defense in the NFL
2008 - #1 in ppg and #1 ypg in defense in the NFL

Let's not pretend he did it all himself.

[bobblehead]

But no plan for Cliffy if he gets hurt? That made things untenable this season.

Much like QB's, there are only about 20 NFL caliber LT's in the NFL (sounds funny, I know). NO team has two of them. 12 teams at any given time are searching for a good one. ANY team that loses its LT is going to suffer. If they have enough other talent they can compensate for it....if they have Allen Babre at the other tackle they are screwed.

[bobblehead]

He may be one of the most underrated players ever. .

QFT

Insane how his accomplishments are always minimized; FIVE nfccg's, 4 straight

The knock is going to be the same as you guys knock ARod for. Same as you want to support favre for. Sure, they made it to five nfccg's, but he only won 1...then lost the superbowl. I'm not saying its fair, its a team game, but its the reason he is "underrated" in your opinion. Add to this the fact that he doesn't put up great numbers either and you have a guy ignored by the media.

[bobblehead]

I like Rodgers a lot. That's a misnomer. No one is discussing the defensive team around him. Big Ben has had a ton of offensive success with a really bad line. Why? Well, a slew of reasons, but that is highly irrelevant. The point of bringing up BR is because RG said something along the lines of no QB has ever had success with a horrible line, and BR has.

That said, BR is a lot bigger than Rodgers and much more of a playmaker. He breaks tackles that are easy sacks on Rodgers. That said, BR still takes a lot of sacks that he probably shoudn't, much like Rodgers, but the difference is BR is a huge dude who's body can handle it. Hopefully Rodger's body can handle it, too.

I disagree. I have seen both up close in person. AR is just as strong...shorter, but more athletic as well. Ben does have a gift in his balance and manages to keep it, but I actually equate him as possibly the closest comparison to Rodgers. Both guys are deceptively hard to take down...both take too many sacks because of it. Rodgers throws a better long ball and punishes teams that fail to bring him down that way, while Ben is better at spotting the shorter routes to unload it to.

Right now Ben is better AND has a better line. Neither line is GOOD. Bens is bad, ours is terrible. I happen to think ARod is going to be a big time winner in this league. I'd like to see him take the dump off pattern more and get a little more time in the pocket...or have a pocket to step up into.

Pitt also calls way more screens and runs than we do.

[denverYooper]

I think, truthfully a big part of it, is lack of identity. We flirted with that stupid zone blocking scheme. We brought in a guy with two years of experience, and called him an expert. Then he left after one year. Then we relied on a guy with one season of experience (Philben), to continue the progress.

So, today, what are we? zone blocking? not really. Power running? no. WCO? no.... We brought in guys suited to run the ZBS, but now, we aren't really doing that, but we're looking for our RB to "one cut and go". That works, if there is a hole, but frequently, there isn't one.

Guess you could blame that on coaching too. But not sure that's Campen's fault. That's McCarthy, or Philbin. If I gotta pick, I pick Philbin at this point.

This is an excellent point RG, and something I've been mulling over wrt our line lately. We do seem to be lacking an identity on offense. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Tausch (hopefully) coming back. Barbre is a better run blocker, you can argue that his pass blocking is improving and it may be that he becomes very good at it. Tausch pre-injury was a better pass blocker, although who knows but the coaches after 10 months.

We're running alright so far. 4.2 YPA, tied with Minny and NYG. Not a bad spot to be in, really. But we don't run nearly as much as either of those teams for some reason. Probably because we do have a dangerous passing game with a lot of weapons. But a line that has been shaky so far in pass pro.

So, *if* Tausch comes back and is better in pass pro, do we go with him and say "eff it, we're passing" and hope he and Cliffy hold up? Or do we keep Barbre in, hope he continues to improve in pass pro and maybe run more often?

[Partial]

Big Ben never had a problem with this and won a super bowl with an equally bad line.

Big Ben got lots of defensive help when he won the SB.

2005 - #3 in ppg and #4 ypg in defense in the NFL
2008 - #1 in ppg and #1 ypg in defense in the NFL

Let's not pretend he did it all himself.

Absolutely. RG alluded nobody can win with a bad line. I said BR could. That's all.