Dougherty: "Packers need free agent help"

[Bretsky]

This is a cop out and you know it.

There was no emphasis on acquiring anyone WHEN it happened. I was talking about it then. Go back and read it. Pull up threads from then.

There is nothing wrong with our current players (well most of them anyhow). Some JUST AREN'T READY.

Yeah, you and half the people out there have been whining about lack of free agents since the media began pushing that storyline several years a ago. I simply don't see it. The Packers have been successful in free agency and trades. They've found a number of starters and have avoided any huge busts. Hell, the best guy on the team was a free agent pickup.

IMHO, free agency is not the problem/solution. It is just a convenient cop out for people to bitch about.

Actually a few of us have been on board with what RG points out consistently; we were pummeled with the TT is great concept and slammed after the 13-3 season. For some time we were laid back and made very subtle comments. Now they are getting stronger.

I agree with RG; your argument is a cop out.

TT thought this team sucked in year one and went out and landed some solid calibur free agents. Kudos for him to year one. After that he's fallen short consistently.

[Bretsky]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb?

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't.

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

[mmmdk]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb?

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't.

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

2003 Draft, Cullen Jenkins: Originally signed with the Packers as a non-drafted free agent on May 2

Basically a rookie (NFL doesn't have 20 draft rounds anymore) but he's still a good player when healthy. When signed he was just that; a rookie and not Sean Jones or whomever.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb?

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't.

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

So now TT has to get rid of the few good players that were left by Sherman.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we get the facts straight:

Kapinos - FA
Brett Swain - FA (resign)
Bigby - FA
Woodson - FA
Bush - Waivers
Grant - Trade
Martin -Trade
Kuhn - Waivers
Harris - Trade
T Williams - FA
Havner - FA
Giordano - FA
Chillar - FA
Goode - FA
Dietrich-Smith - FA
Jenkins - FA
Pickett - FA
Lee - FA

18 of 53 players came via Trade, Waivers or Free Agency. This doesn't count any Packers that we have reupped. (Jennings, Rodgers, Tauscher, etc)

Over 1/3 of our roster has not come thru the draft.

Listen, you're (hopefully) deliberately missing the point; the free agents Ron Wolf got us WERE PLAYERS, PRO BOWLERS & EVEN HOF'ERS.

Not nobodies or diamonds in the rough - at f@cking best.

Are you even trying not to be dumb?

Look around, free agency can make you champs or the Redskins. TT can't find sh!t in free agency or won't 'cus his head is up his own a@@.

Charles Woodson!!! Is there a better corner in the league over the last 3 years?

Jenkins and Pickett are anchoring our D-Line very nicely. Not HOF but damn good players.

Bigby looks like a player when healthy. Unfortunately he can't.

I might be wrong but I thought Shermy brought in Jenkins

2003 Draft, Cullen Jenkins: Originally signed with the Packers as a non-drafted free agent on May 2

Basically a rookie (NFL doesn't have 20 draft rounds anymore) but he's still a good player when healthy. When signed he was just that; a rookie and not Sean Jones or whomever.

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

[Administrator]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

[ThunderDan]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

[Rastak]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

Was Hunt a FA?

[pbmax]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

Was Hunt a FA?

They resigned Cledtius as a FA and let Holliday go. Choose the position over the players.

[Bretsky]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

Was Hunt a FA?

No

[Bretsky]

Free Agency can work wonderfully (see Saints/Vikings) or it can handicap a team when you choose the wrong players (see Redskins).

We pay our GM to make these calls and choose the right guys.

I think sometimes a GM who sees a team with gaping holes might try to shoot for the impace players, and a GM who feels there are minimal holes to fill will look for developmental free agents or scrap heap not many teams want.

TT went with the first strategy a few years back and hit home runs with Woodsen and Pickett.
Chillar has been ok, but for the most part he's been all about strategy B since.

He's fallen short since his big bang.

[sharpe1027]

Actually a few of us have been on board with what RG points out consistently; we were pummeled with the TT is great concept and slammed after the 13-3 season. For some time we were laid back and made very subtle comments. Now they are getting stronger.

I agree with RG; your argument is a cop out.

TT thought this team sucked in year one and went out and landed some solid calibur free agents. Kudos for him to year one. After that he's fallen short consistently.

Cop out with respect to what? What truth am I trying to avoid?

As I originally said the problem isn't free agency. Problem number one is the poor O-line play.

I disagree that there is that important of a difference between free agency and any other way to get players. It doesn't matter how you get the players, but the grass is always greener. Free agency is hyped up by the media, probably because it creates drama and stories in the off-season.

If TT has truly fallen short, it isn't only in free agency. Free agency is just an extension of evaluation of players currently on the roster, including those recently drafted players.

I guess I just get sick of hearing that the problem is free agency, that's just one of the biggest cop outs there is out there. If the solution was that easy, every team would win the SB every year. :P

[Administrator]

Or Joe Johnson or C Hunt.

You really weaken your arguments with cheap shots like this. What sherman did or didn't do, really has no impact or effect on what should be done now.

Why? So he gets to say Sean Jones and Reggie White to prove how FA pushes a team over the top and I can't come up with examples where it doesn't work and hamstrings a team's cap space?

Doesn't your little discussion prove that free agency works sometimes, but not all the time? Wasn't that known before you started the discussion?

Really, what are you trying to prove? I read from this thread that several people would've liked to see some mid tier free agents competing for positions on this team. What would be so bad about that?I don't see anyone at all whining that the packers should have signed Albert Haynesworth...

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove by bringing up Sherman. Shouldn't you be arguing instead that we should stand pat and do nothing? Perhaps that would lead to the discussion of what you think should be done about the OL... or maybe you think it's fine?

Personally, I think Sherman was an ass, but tried to field a good team. Ted Thompson does things differently, for the most part better, but there are still issues. My solutions probably don't work for you, but yours don't work for me at all.

[The Leaper]

I don't think Thompson is scared of free agency. I just think he has assembled an OL scout staff that is mediocre. To this point, he has yet to really have a success in terms of "his guys" on the OL. Spitz is probably the closest thing to a success he has, and I would say that Spitz is no better than an adequate NFL center.

Considering the OL is more important to the offense than any skill position other than QB, and that spells trouble. Thompson has great instincts on defense when it comes to talent...he also seems to be a solid judge of receiving talent. He's been very marginal in terms of the running game...both RB and OL acquisitions have been mediocre to poor. Ryan Grant was the Giants choice...and any of their RBs at the time would've been better than we had.

[Partial]

Equally as important as signing the right external free agents is signing the right internal guys. Letting Holliday go and keeping Hunt was a horrible move.