Steven Jackson Trade?

[woodbuck27]

If any of you know who Arrigo is or follow him (personally I think that he just makes stuff up for fun, much like I make mock drafts), he said that 3 different people told him S. Jackson to the Packers for Grant and a 2nd.

Maybe he'll get one right for once.

I hope he got this one right. Dreaming.

[woodbuck27]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.

[cheesner]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.

And I think we should have traded a 7th round pick for Ed Reed and 6th rounder for Joe Thomas. Does that make me a better GM than TT?

What would have it taken to trade up for either of Lynch or Peterson? Were any teams even willing to trade up? Or does this really not matter and it just another opportunity to deride TT?

[woodbuck27]

Why would TT trade for Jackson when, in 2007 draft, he wouldn't trade up for Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson? Instead, he drafted Justin Harrell.

In 2007 he felt Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer at running back. A lot of us back then were hoping he'd at least trade up and try to get Lynch. It was severely disappointing when he didn't.

Anyone could tell from the film that Lynch and Peterson were in a class by themselves that draft year, and Peterson was head and shoulders above Lynch. Minnesota pulled the trigger that year. TT held his fire. The result, we got two also rans, while Buffalo and Minnesota (well Minnesota for sure) got the difference makers.

Maybe TT and MM are still married to the idea that their zone blocking scheme doesn't require elite backs.

In the 2008 draft which was rich with running back talent (Darren McFadden, Johathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jacob Hester, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice and Tim Hightower), TT drafted ZERO running backs, apparently still thinking Brandon Jackson and Deshawn Wynn were the answer.

Again, a lot of us were severely disappointed TT couldn't pull the trigger then.

I'd be shocked if he pulled it now and traded for Steven Jackson.

I wake up call for all those that absolutely are convinced he's the answer at GM for our future.

And I think we should have traded a 7th round pick for Ed Reed and 6th rounder for Joe Thomas. Does that make me a better GM than TT?

What would have it taken to trade up for either of Lynch or Peterson? Were any teams even willing to trade up? Or does this really not matter and it just another opportunity to deride TT?

The message is clear. TT has to make moves for us that are obviously more in tune as difference makers rather that cover moves or nothings. He has to act bolder.

[Fritz]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

[woodbuck27]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

Not meaning to get off topic but a comment on A. Peterson follows:

A large part of the Vikings smarts in luring Favre back was to provide some protection for Adrian Peterson. The way it was he was headed. It's my opinion he was headed for a short career in the NFL. Even today I"m not sure he's going on all cylinders. Favre is huge in the Vikings offense.

[Fritz]

Back on topic: I think Jackson is 26 years old.

I would be thrilled to give up Grant and a second rounder, but only on this proviso:

That McCarthy would actually give the guy the ball - and not just as a receiver, but as a runner. What good to give up a second rounder and fork over the cash to Jackson if MM is going to give him 11 carries a game?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing TT as good, bad or indifferent. I'm simply trying to analyze his philosophy of building a team.

As far as hindsight goes, yeah we benefit from it. But people were also making these arguments AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT.

That there are busts and no guarantees of NFL success is obvious. I was happy TT drafted Abdul Hodge.

But I'd still argue that 80-90% of guys who rose to the top in big school college programs rise to the top in the NFL.

[Fritz]

Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing TT as good, bad or indifferent. I'm simply trying to analyze his philosophy of building a team.

As far as hindsight goes, yeah we benefit from it. But people were also making these arguments AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT.

That there are busts and no guarantees of NFL success is obvious. I was happy TT drafted Abdul Hodge.

But I'd still argue that 80-90% of guys who rose to the top in big school college programs rise to the top in the NFL.

Well, I read your line about TT and long shots and losing too often as a criticism, especially against the backdrop of the Peterson pick.

But the same arguments people made at the time of the draft - Peterson was an injury risk, Harrell was an injury risk - turned out to be true in one case and not the other.

And about that 80-90% thing....if you're talking about "gambling" on talent from bigger schools....that fits the Harrell pick (Tennessee).

Ted hits, Ted misses. But he's amassed a lot of picks over his five years so he's had more shots. What we might be learning this year is that it's possible he hangs on to picks too long. Rouse would be the prime example. I don't know if Hodge fits that. Or Jackson.

[Bretsky]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I had heard TT wanted Revis too

But if it's true that he tried to trade out why didn't he trade down with Denver as Jacksonville did. Then they grabbed the safety they wanted in Reggie Nelson while the Broncos drafted another DL Bust in Jarvis Moss

[Bretsky]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

[woodbuck27]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

I'm still annoyed TT didn't have the smarts in his first draft for us to pick ( a special DE prospect ) in Justin Tuck.

[Gunakor]

Are you sure TT didn't try to trade up for one of them?

Most people that know what was going on after the fact say the player that Ted really wanted in that draft was Darell Revis, when he was taken they tried to trade out, but only for picks in that draft.

There was also that whole Grant guy in 2008, that was a sensation the year before. Gado wasn't nearly as good as he seemed at the time. His stats sucked. Grants were quite good. Like AD good.

I don't have any inside info. I'm just going on the results of the draft.

I know he could have had Ray Rice, for instance, if he had wanted him. The same for Steve Slaton and Matte Forte. I'm guessing moving up four positions to get Marshawn Lynch wouldn't be that hard.

Sure, he may have been mislead by Gado and Grant, Jackson and Wynn. But again, these are potential guys, not proven college, marquee talent.

Of course, no one can absolutely predict that a college star will make it in the NFL, but I'll wager that more often than not he does. The knock on Adrian Peterson, for instance, was that he was "injury prone." However, Minnesota gambled on talent and won. Too often TT gambles on long shots and loses.

For a team that needed a punt returner, Devin Hester and Greg Jennings were no brainers.

The statement italicized above is given with hindsight - so it criticizes TT with the benefit of hindsight. Easy to do. Minnesota "gambled on talent" because Peterson worked out. He wasn't a big long shot, but five teams, I think, passed on him because of that injury issue. So it was a bit of gamble, wasn't it? But when TT gambles and loses, then it's a "long shot."

Justin Harell was also seen as a talented player coming out of college. But he had suffered an injury and that was seen as a risk. Just like Adrian Peterson! But the one works out and it's a "gamble on talent," and the other doesn't so it's a "long shot."

Hindsight is nice.

Peterson had special talent; I don't think Harrell had that

Watch Harrell's junior season at Tennessee. Beastly. I only wish that special talent could find it's way onto an NFL football field. If it did, we'd all be talking about a gamble that paid off. Just like if Peterson still had nagging injuries the Vikings fans might be all over Zigi for gambling on an injury prone RB that high in the draft. This is where a bit of luck helps.

[Partial]

I think you're doing a dis-service to Peterson. He is a once in a generation type of talent. If he stays healthy I have little doubt that he will be talked about among the best if not as the best.

He has freakish acceleration, change of direction and power.

He is scary good. I honestly don't think there is a single player I would rather have on my team. And that says a lot because I value quarterbacks WAY more than any other position. Maybe Peyton Manning. He's the only guy with the same level of separation between number one and number two in the game.

[Gunakor]

No, I'm not doing a disservice to Peterson. I think anyone who thinks lack of talent is Harrell's problem is doing a disservice to Harrell. Talent was never an issue for him. Staying healthy is the issue. If he could get back to health he could use that talent to help our football team. I'm about ready to call him a bust at this point same as everyone else, but it's not because he doesn't have the talent. The guy just can't get healthy and stay healthy.