What it takes to be #1

[hoosier]

Unfortunately Maxi it isn't exaggerated. The average life span of an NFL player is really eye opening. I think I get what you are trying to say but you don't ever want the pendulum to swing back....and it wasn't just Lombardi, it was the whole league operating that way.

Yes, but the life span issues come from the obesity that's encouraged among linemen more than from playing through injury. These guys are encouraged to gain and eat tremendous amounts of food and then when the physical activity stops, their appetites don't adjust. Then a decade down the road, they think they need to work out and try to start working at the level they did when they were training and they give themselves heart attacks. And yes, an inordinate amount suffer from dementia which is horrible for everyone involved.

Life span and life quality issues aren't just related to obesity. Long term effects of head injuries in football are a major concern that have only recently begun to be looked at under a bright light. The NYT did a story last month about Alzheimers and dementia rates among football players. According to the study quoted, former NFL players suffer from those diseases at 19 times the normal rate for middle aged males (30-49).

EDIT: didn't see your last sentence when I wrote this.

[Maxie the Taxi]

When push comes to shove, we're all outsiders here. We make judgements based on what we're told by the few who know.

My suspicion is, my hunch is, based upon my experience in past times, that players of Lombardi's era didn't take care of themselves nearly as well as players do now. They played their way into shape. Most had second jobs. They didn't have time to spend hours in the weight room. They knew zip about nutrition and little more about injuries that nowadays are considered serious. I'm sure I've played sports in my day with a rotator cuff tear. We didn't know what a UCL or ACL was. We didn't seek treatment. We just "let it heal" and went on. Of course, we didn't have as many muscles to strain and pull. We feared being "muscle-bound."

Jim Taylor, as I recall, was one of the first to emphasize weight training, but he was virtually alone.

On the plus side, these old timers knew nothing about drugs. They drank alcohol hard. They smoked cigarettes.

Nowadays, players have access to all kinds of nutritional information and all kinds of pharmaceuticals, both legal and illegal. both performance and recreational. Modern day players are weight room animals. Look at Hawk. They guy spends days in the weight room. He sleeps in an oxygen room.

What damage is caused by the modern lifestyle of drugs and pushing your body to physical limits is hard to qualify or quantify in studies. A majority of guys in the NFL might take care of themselves well, like Driver and Hawk. A minority might abuse themselves like Tony Mandarich is reported to have done. The minority scews the results.

Another factor is gambling. The league more stringently reports any little injury now so odds makers and fantasy football players have knowledge.

pbmax probably has it right. Years ago you get injured bad you just stopped playing and sold insurance year round. No big deal. Today you get injured bad and it costs you millions. On the other hand, the millions of potential income also is a hell of an incentive for players to badly abuse their bodies with drugs and surgeries to stretch out their playing careers.

[Fritz]

Uh, Rod Marinelli was one of those macho-honor-hard-work-manly-men guys you all are slathering over. How'd he do in Detroit?

You gotta have PLAYERS to coach. I like Marinelli. Always have. He's a great Defensive coach. Not so sure about head coach, but Detoilet wasn't a fair evaluation.

I could make the argument that this year, with the injuries, Schwartz has less talent than Marinelli had last year and he's already got a "W" as a coach.

Marinelli once had his team fly out to Oakland the day of a preseason game to toughen' 'em up. He worked them hard in training camp - some of the players reported him to the league. He wanted them to be in shape so they could be tough in the fourth quarter.

And all they ever did was falter in the fourth quarter. Marinelli may be an honorable man, but his ode skoo methods didn't work.

[bobblehead]

Uh, Rod Marinelli was one of those macho-honor-hard-work-manly-men guys you all are slathering over. How'd he do in Detroit?

but the most notable of those types in the league today is Parcells

[packerbacker1234]

There are clear differences in players on teams. Driver, Kampman, Woodson - All workmanlike mentalities. They don't play this game to get rich they play for love of playing the game. They throw there bodies around without any mind to injury for the sake of making the play. Unlike a Randy Moss type who wont go over the middle to make the play and take the hit, guys like Driver have and will continue to.

Kampman isn't a world of talent at DE, even in the 4-3. But, he just doesn't quit. All game long, 4 quarters, he is coming at you hard. There are many better then him at the position, but very few that can keep up the pace he does for 4 quarters. Woodson is the ultimate professional. Willing to do anything that is best for the team, from inspiring teammates around him, playing his ass of, and even returning punts. Guys like this are rarity it seems.

Rodgers is hard to put in that category right now. It's too early in his career, so we still don't really know what sort of player he is. He has a nice deep ball, but so does Derek Anderson. We'll see his mentality as things go on. I think a Favre is a better characterization of this. Not the current, but the one from the 90's.

Yeah he partied, but when he touched that field he gave everything he had and more on every play. He got addicted to pain killers, which most likely stemmed back to college and the car accident... where he should of been out for a month and some how didn't miss a game. All the times he played through things for us, for hte team, to win. Guys like Driver, Woodson, Kampman, and Favre are hard to find. I am glad to say we were fortunate to have 4 of them on our team at once, and still fortunate to have 3. I think others that may fit but are overlooked are people like Clifton, maybe even Tauscher. So far, it is still too early, but Clay Mathews has that build of character dating back to his college days. A walk on, was like 9th string at LB, and somehow worked his ass off to get to where he is now.

Plus, he has that family generational thing going on, where I am sure his ancestors were more workmanlike then most these days.

MM is not Lombardi's equal in any way, and I am not sure he really inspires people the way Vince ever did. He seems to always make excuses for players. The infamous "pad level" or "technique" issues. I think I have heard him even say some of his palyers were fatigued. See, when Favre is fatigued like he admitted at the end of the san fran game this year, it's not used as an excuse. He still put everything he had into the game, despite being tired. He didn't use it as an excuse.

I hate excuses. Yeah, I am young here, but I hate the minor injuries keeping guys out. "he sprained his ankle and will not go today". No, pop some pain killers, wrap that shit up, and get out there. I played through it, so can professional athletes.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lombardi has another quote which indirectly gets to my gripe against MM in a certain area:

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all"

Simply put, if you don't put in the time and you end up playing tired you will fail. I extend that to this: If you don't practice outdoors in the winter you will be a pussy and a coward in the bitter cold. If you practice being in the right spot and knowing your assignment, but aren't competitive in BEATING another man in that assignment you will be in the right position and be...BEATEN!!

I think a trend in recent years in GB (and likely around the league) is to not hit or be competitive in practice to save the bodies of these big hulks. MM refuses to practice outdoors in the cold because he thinks we don't have "productive practices" and then he wonders why his guys are getting their asses handed to them by Chicago in shitty weather. Lovie is a dolt, but his guys practiced in that shit all week and were fully prepared to play in it...MM's boys wondered what happened to the comfort of the Hudson practice facility where the snaps to the punter were warm and perfect.

You tell me if Babre has to stop a raging Kampman in practice daily that he could put in those piss poor efforts on sunday...I highly doubt it.

Unfortunately your contention is wrong.

Today's NFL players work harder, train more, and hit more. In the old days, they came into camp and they worked hard then.

Nowadays, you have way more off season work. There are plenty of advocates that note the injuries that happen because these athletes aren't allowed much time to recuperate.

There are plenty of coaches who tried your methods...and they got nothing out of it...coughlin until he changed, schottenheimer, etc.

The most successful coach is Bellicheck. How does he practice? Did practicing indoors stop the Colts, the Rams, the steelers.

This is the kind of bs that fans trot out when their team isn't performing. Good teams win, bad teams don't. Has nothing to do with indoor or outdoor practice facilities.

As for Chicago: correlation does not prove causation. Repeat.

[packerbacker1234]

Also Wanted to Note: The whole practicing outdoors when your going to playing outdoors is something I think is vital. I hate hearing were indoors practicing when we know that week were playing in minimally the cold, and possibly snow.

It's pretty upsetting, since the players don't seem ready to deal with it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Also Wanted to Note: The whole practicing outdoors when your going to playing outdoors is something I think is vital. I hate hearing were indoors practicing when we know that week were playing in minimally the cold, and possibly snow.

It's pretty upsetting, since the players don't seem ready to deal with it.

I agree with both of your posts. Well done.

[Guiness]

I agree with having some practices outdoors. Not necessarily to 'toughen them up' per say, but to get them accustomed to what it's like to play in that sort of weather. There are adjustments you have to make, and if you've been exposed before, not as much shock when that cold hits you.