Chew on this Hawk Lovers!

[sharpe1027]

But thats impossible. Bishop blew up 3rd and 4th stringers. He must be good.

All kidding aside, if he really was that good, he'd be playing. He just isnt.

Coaches have been wrong before, but fans always like the guy sitting on the bench...or the guy available in free agency. Most of the time the fans end up being wrong.

[mmmdk]

Are there really "Hawk Lovers"...maybe just guys that think he's not a total bust?

VERY valid post
I don't think there are any Hawk Lovers left
I think we're all disappointed

At minimum the coaches choose to have Barnett and Chillar on the field over Hawk in these packages. The article also points out that Barnett is making plays outside of his assignments where Hawk perhaps has not. I think Hawk use to play in the Nickel.

Good post by Skin in that all of these guys are better than some of the yahoos we've had in the past.

*looking at my authentic [away] Hawk jersey* and I feel like a change is coming. Packer Pro Shop beware!!!

[Brandon494]

Tired of fans trying to defend Hawk saying he is solid. Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines. If Bishop and Hawk were both drafted in the 3rd round its no doubt Bishop would be getting more playing time then Hawk.

I don't buy this at all. Never have. Coaches and GM's have way too much at stake to keep playing a guy they believe is inferior becuase they drafted him higher. Maybe for a year or two but not once the guy is in his fourth year.

Take Brohm and Flynn as an example. Brohm's higher draft status isn't getting him anything. Face it the coaches believe and are probably right that Hawk is better than Bishop. Period. It doesn't matter when he was drafted. That doesn't mean Hawk is great, it just means he's better than Bishop. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Bishop is just not as good as you believe he is.

Hawk played OLB until we switched to the 3-4 this season and Bishop was not going to jump Barnett for the starting MLB job. So far in the 3-4 Hawk has made NO plays! When Bishop has gotten playing time he has shown he can make plays. Yes he is not as good in coverage as Hawk but he is a better 3-4 ILB IMO. I like Hawk as a person because he does the right thing and works his ass off BUT he just isnt that good. I want playmakers on defense and Hawk is far from a playmaker.

[bobblehead]

Completely disagree Lurker. They're going to play that much nickel because it puts their best players on the field.

Your point is ludicrous. If the Packers think Chillar is that much better overall than Hawk, then why isn't he in the base Defense?

Because in reality Hawk is SLIGHTLY better than Chillar against the run (or maybe equal) and letting him play those snaps keeps him happy and keeps Chillar fresh to do what he does best?

That is just one of about 5 answers that came to mind, but the most likely.

Look, I'll crow a bit, I went head to head with waldo on this when most of you panty wastes were scared to question him. I like Waldo, very good insightful poster, but we all whiff on an occassional stance/prediction. I've had my share of having to eat crow, we all do, but the reality is that last year Chillar was the best linebacker on the field and second best before Barnett got hurt....this year he is the 4th best on the field....Anyone who is still denying the truth has a different agenda.

[ND72]

so obviously I have to speak up...maybe it's because I do love Hawk, or maybe it's because I'm going as him for Halloween, EITHER WAY, I'm still on board. That being said, there are lots of kids I coach that I see what they can do, but doesn't mean I'm happy with how they are doing it. The first few games, I saw a different AJ Hawk than I have before. He was playing with passion, and was flying to the ball, and was in on almost every running play a team threw at us.

I haven't been real happy with Dom Capers defense so far...which has nothing to do with Hawk. Against St. Louis, our "run stuffing" defense was the 2-5-4 defense. I'm sorry, but against a power running team, I do NOT want Jolly and Jenkins as my only 2 DL guys sucking up blocks, that means MOST of the blocks are being ate up by LB's and DB's are then asked to make the plays. Which also meant Kampman & Poop/Matthews essentially became blocking dumbies as they had to eat up blocks as well.

I still think Hawk's best days are yet to come. Ask Barnett. He finally got to a point in 2007 where you saw what he could be. He understood our defense, he had been in it a while, and it was starting to show in his play. Hawk comes in as a rookie, 2nd year things start looking good, 3rd year he's hurt, the entire team is hurt, Bob Sanders proves he's an idiot, and Hawk is playing in numerous different positions. Now he's in a new defense again.

Do I wish Hawk was making more noticeable plays? hell yes! But sometimes the best LB's just simply make tackles, and not much more. New England had a ton of them for years. The only reason anyone knew who Vrable was, was because he caught TD's on offense, on defense he has been a stud for years, because all he does is make tackles.

I have to agree with the one poster...do you remember the days of Paris Lenon, Bernardo Harris, and anyone else??? we are spoiled now...simple as that. We expect guys to make a play everytime they are on the field. We have a damn fine LB corp right now, and the more we learn how to use Kampman, and everyone else, the better we're going to be. Hawk will be on the field a lot more this year, I guarantee it.

[SkinBasket]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines.

SHOWTIME!!!

If we don't come away with 6 INTs, 10 FF, 5+ recoveries, 10 TFL, 25 passes defensed, and 12 sacks per game, our defense is obviously a disappointment.

[Brandon494]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines.

SHOWTIME!!!

If we don't come away with 6 INTs, 10 FF, 5+ recoveries, 10 TFL, 25 passes defensed, and 12 sacks per game, our defense is obviously a disappointment.

Yea thats exactly what I said.

If you read the damn article you would have seen that so far this season Hawk ranks eighth on the team with 21 tackles and has yet to produce a sack or a tackle for a loss or deflected a pass. I'm sorry that I expect more from our starting ILB who was the #5 pick overall.

[Lurker64]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

[Brandon494]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

[bobblehead]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

I disagree. The main point of contention is that Hawk is so sure fired, never out of position and never driven off the ball. Many times over the years I see him get plowed by full backs or look clueless making sure he contains the outside when no one is blocking him instead of dropping down on a runner that cuts inside of him.

He is assignment sure, but he fails at that assignment more often than people seem to realize.

I love Hawk as far as attitude and prep, he is packer people, but he isn't anything other than a slightly below average NFL starting lineback or above average bench player.

[Partial]

Tired of fans trying to defend Hawk saying he is solid. Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines. If Bishop and Hawk were both drafted in the 3rd round its no doubt Bishop would be getting more playing time then Hawk.

I don't buy this at all. Never have. Coaches and GM's have way too much at stake to keep playing a guy they believe is inferior becuase they drafted him higher. Maybe for a year or two but not once the guy is in his fourth year.

Take Brohm and Flynn as an example. Brohm's higher draft status isn't getting him anything. Face it the coaches believe and are probably right that Hawk is better than Bishop. Period. It doesn't matter when he was drafted. That doesn't mean Hawk is great, it just means he's better than Bishop. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Bishop is just not as good as you believe he is.

Brohm wasn't a top 5 pick and he was exponentially worse than Hawk. Hawk is not bad, he is okay at everything. Okay is not good enough in this D. Brohm was just all-around bad.

We have no idea what he have in Bish but in his limited action he has had game changing plays, something this defense needs.

[Brandon494]

I love Hawk as far as attitude and prep, he is packer people, but he isn't anything other than a slightly below average NFL starting lineback or above average bench player.

+1

Brohm wasn't a top 5 pick and he was exponentially worse than Hawk. Hawk is not bad, he is okay at everything. Okay is not good enough in this D. Brohm was just all-around bad.

We have no idea what he have in Bish but in his limited action he has had game changing plays, something this defense needs.

+1

[Partial]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

I completely disagree. I think you're taking a mighty big leap. Is Chillar still the situational player when he is playing exponentially more than Hawk? I definitely view it as Hawk is the situational player right now.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think Hawk sleeps in a oxygen bubble. I think he needs to get off the bubble and on regular air. Then he'll come around.

[Partial]

so obviously I have to speak up...maybe it's because I do love Hawk, or maybe it's because I'm going as him for Halloween, EITHER WAY, I'm still on board. That being said, there are lots of kids I coach that I see what they can do, but doesn't mean I'm happy with how they are doing it. The first few games, I saw a different AJ Hawk than I have before. He was playing with passion, and was flying to the ball, and was in on almost every running play a team threw at us.

I haven't been real happy with Dom Capers defense so far...which has nothing to do with Hawk. Against St. Louis, our "run stuffing" defense was the 2-5-4 defense. I'm sorry, but against a power running team, I do NOT want Jolly and Jenkins as my only 2 DL guys sucking up blocks, that means MOST of the blocks are being ate up by LB's and DB's are then asked to make the plays. Which also meant Kampman & Poop/Matthews essentially became blocking dumbies as they had to eat up blocks as well.

I still think Hawk's best days are yet to come. Ask Barnett. He finally got to a point in 2007 where you saw what he could be. He understood our defense, he had been in it a while, and it was starting to show in his play. Hawk comes in as a rookie, 2nd year things start looking good, 3rd year he's hurt, the entire team is hurt, Bob Sanders proves he's an idiot, and Hawk is playing in numerous different positions. Now he's in a new defense again.

Do I wish Hawk was making more noticeable plays? hell yes! But sometimes the best LB's just simply make tackles, and not much more. New England had a ton of them for years. The only reason anyone knew who Vrable was, was because he caught TD's on offense, on defense he has been a stud for years, because all he does is make tackles.

I have to agree with the one poster...do you remember the days of Paris Lenon, Bernardo Harris, and anyone else??? we are spoiled now...simple as that. We expect guys to make a play everytime they are on the field. We have a damn fine LB corp right now, and the more we learn how to use Kampman, and everyone else, the better we're going to be. Hawk will be on the field a lot more this year, I guarantee it.

Good post.

That said, Vraebel was in competition for defensive player of the year two years ago, wasn't he? I seem to recall hearing this.

The thing about Barnett is he always showed the athletic ability to make plays. It appears that Hawk has lost his speed and that is why he has become a worse player.

Statistically, back when he was quick and agile his rookie year, he rated by Scouts Inc as the best LB in coverage in the NFL if I remember correctly. I swear Harvey posted this numerous times or something to this general effect.

Once Barnett learned to play downhill, he became a manimal. Hawk just doesn't have the manimal attitude that Barnett has in my opinion. He just doesn't have the speed/tenancity/length to shed blocks.