Chew on this Hawk Lovers!

[PackerTimer]

Tired of fans trying to defend Hawk saying he is solid. Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines. If Bishop and Hawk were both drafted in the 3rd round its no doubt Bishop would be getting more playing time then Hawk.

I don't buy this at all. Never have. Coaches and GM's have way too much at stake to keep playing a guy they believe is inferior becuase they drafted him higher. Maybe for a year or two but not once the guy is in his fourth year.

Take Brohm and Flynn as an example. Brohm's higher draft status isn't getting him anything. Face it the coaches believe and are probably right that Hawk is better than Bishop. Period. It doesn't matter when he was drafted. That doesn't mean Hawk is great, it just means he's better than Bishop. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Bishop is just not as good as you believe he is.

Brohm wasn't a top 5 pick and he was exponentially worse than Hawk. Hawk is not bad, he is okay at everything. Okay is not good enough in this D. Brohm was just all-around bad.

We have no idea what he have in Bish but in his limited action he has had game changing plays, something this defense needs.

I agree Hawk hasn't been great this year, I hope he starts playing much much better. But he is better than Bishop. If he wasn't Bishop would be playing ahead of him. The honeymoon period for him as a #5 pick is over, otherwise Chillar wouldn't be getting time in front of him. The reason Bishop isn't playing has nothing to do with Hawks draft status. It's simply that Hawk, warts and all, is better.

[Partial]

Tired of fans trying to defend Hawk saying he is solid. Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines. If Bishop and Hawk were both drafted in the 3rd round its no doubt Bishop would be getting more playing time then Hawk.

I don't buy this at all. Never have. Coaches and GM's have way too much at stake to keep playing a guy they believe is inferior becuase they drafted him higher. Maybe for a year or two but not once the guy is in his fourth year.

Take Brohm and Flynn as an example. Brohm's higher draft status isn't getting him anything. Face it the coaches believe and are probably right that Hawk is better than Bishop. Period. It doesn't matter when he was drafted. That doesn't mean Hawk is great, it just means he's better than Bishop. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Bishop is just not as good as you believe he is.

Brohm wasn't a top 5 pick and he was exponentially worse than Hawk. Hawk is not bad, he is okay at everything. Okay is not good enough in this D. Brohm was just all-around bad.

We have no idea what he have in Bish but in his limited action he has had game changing plays, something this defense needs.

I agree Hawk hasn't been great this year, I hope he starts playing much much better. But he is better than Bishop. If he wasn't Bishop would be playing ahead of him. The honeymoon period for him as a #5 pick is over, otherwise Chillar wouldn't be getting time in front of him. The reason Bishop isn't playing has nothing to do with Hawks draft status. It's simply that Hawk, warts and all, is better.

How can you say this? Based upon what? Hawk didn't make any plays in PS either, while Bishop was making plays. Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

It's impossible to say who is better at this point as we don't have enough data to compare. I find it very hard to believe that Bishop couldn't do what Hawk does in a typical game.

[SkinBasket]

If you read the damn article you would have seen that so far this season Hawk ranks eighth on the team with 21 tackles and has yet to produce a sack or a tackle for a loss or deflected a pass. I'm sorry that I expect more from our starting ILB who was the #5 pick overall.

Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.

[Brandon494]

Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.

Come on man, your just making yourself look stupid now.

[PackerTimer]

so obviously I have to speak up...maybe it's because I do love Hawk, or maybe it's because I'm going as him for Halloween, EITHER WAY, I'm still on board. That being said, there are lots of kids I coach that I see what they can do, but doesn't mean I'm happy with how they are doing it. The first few games, I saw a different AJ Hawk than I have before. He was playing with passion, and was flying to the ball, and was in on almost every running play a team threw at us.

I haven't been real happy with Dom Capers defense so far...which has nothing to do with Hawk. Against St. Louis, our "run stuffing" defense was the 2-5-4 defense. I'm sorry, but against a power running team, I do NOT want Jolly and Jenkins as my only 2 DL guys sucking up blocks, that means MOST of the blocks are being ate up by LB's and DB's are then asked to make the plays. Which also meant Kampman & Poop/Matthews essentially became blocking dumbies as they had to eat up blocks as well.

I still think Hawk's best days are yet to come. Ask Barnett. He finally got to a point in 2007 where you saw what he could be. He understood our defense, he had been in it a while, and it was starting to show in his play. Hawk comes in as a rookie, 2nd year things start looking good, 3rd year he's hurt, the entire team is hurt, Bob Sanders proves he's an idiot, and Hawk is playing in numerous different positions. Now he's in a new defense again.

Do I wish Hawk was making more noticeable plays? hell yes! But sometimes the best LB's just simply make tackles, and not much more. New England had a ton of them for years. The only reason anyone knew who Vrable was, was because he caught TD's on offense, on defense he has been a stud for years, because all he does is make tackles.

I have to agree with the one poster...do you remember the days of Paris Lenon, Bernardo Harris, and anyone else??? we are spoiled now...simple as that. We expect guys to make a play everytime they are on the field. We have a damn fine LB corp right now, and the more we learn how to use Kampman, and everyone else, the better we're going to be. Hawk will be on the field a lot more this year, I guarantee it.

Good post.

That said, Vraebel was in competition for defensive player of the year two years ago, wasn't he? I seem to recall hearing this.

The thing about Barnett is he always showed the athletic ability to make plays. It appears that Hawk has lost his speed and that is why he has become a worse player.

Statistically, back when he was quick and agile his rookie year, he rated by Scouts Inc as the best LB in coverage in the NFL if I remember correctly. I swear Harvey posted this numerous times or something to this general effect.

Once Barnett learned to play downhill, he became a manimal. Hawk just doesn't have the manimal attitude that Barnett has in my opinion. He just doesn't have the speed/tenancity/length to shed blocks.

I'm hoping that Hawk starts playing much better. I'm hoping that part of his problem this year is that he's trying to make sure he does what he needs that he isn't, as Moss said, making plays or moving outside of his responsibility to make plays. I sure hope he does. I think he has the ability to do it, he just isn't performing great over the last year and half. I think we all hope he does a nice little 180 for us.

[Brandon494]

BTW has AJ Hawk ever made one game changing play in his career as a Packer? I really can't think of one, not trying to flame the guy but if anyone can think of one please post.

[SkinBasket]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

[SkinBasket]

Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.

Come on man, your just making yourself look stupid now.

I'm sorry, I guess this is what passes for an argument with you. I should have considered that before posting actual words:

[PackerTimer]

Tired of fans trying to defend Hawk saying he is solid. Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines. If Bishop and Hawk were both drafted in the 3rd round its no doubt Bishop would be getting more playing time then Hawk.

I don't buy this at all. Never have. Coaches and GM's have way too much at stake to keep playing a guy they believe is inferior becuase they drafted him higher. Maybe for a year or two but not once the guy is in his fourth year.

Take Brohm and Flynn as an example. Brohm's higher draft status isn't getting him anything. Face it the coaches believe and are probably right that Hawk is better than Bishop. Period. It doesn't matter when he was drafted. That doesn't mean Hawk is great, it just means he's better than Bishop. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Bishop is just not as good as you believe he is.

Brohm wasn't a top 5 pick and he was exponentially worse than Hawk. Hawk is not bad, he is okay at everything. Okay is not good enough in this D. Brohm was just all-around bad.

We have no idea what he have in Bish but in his limited action he has had game changing plays, something this defense needs.

I agree Hawk hasn't been great this year, I hope he starts playing much much better. But he is better than Bishop. If he wasn't Bishop would be playing ahead of him. The honeymoon period for him as a #5 pick is over, otherwise Chillar wouldn't be getting time in front of him. The reason Bishop isn't playing has nothing to do with Hawks draft status. It's simply that Hawk, warts and all, is better.

How can you say this? Based upon what? Hawk didn't make any plays in PS either, while Bishop was making plays. Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

It's impossible to say who is better at this point as we don't have enough data to compare. I find it very hard to believe that Bishop couldn't do what Hawk does in a typical game.

Bishop didn't make many plays last year that I recall. I recall him blowing an awful lot of assignments thought. Hell maybe I'm wrong. He's made plays against other fringe NFL players. If Hawk was out against third and fourth string players he'd probably light the world up too. You are right, we don't have a lot to compare them, but coaches do. At a certain point you have to at least feel that if the coaches aren't playing a guy it's because he's not good enough to be out there. I agree that Hawks status as a #5 pick might have gotten him playing time early in his career but that just isn't the case anymore. No coach is going to hang on that long if somebody else behind Hawk is playing better. They have their jobs at stake. I just don't think Bishop is the better player than Hawk. I also don't think the coaches do.

[Partial]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

I don't remember the plethora of injuries at LB. Who was injured and missed significant playing time besides Barnett?

[Brandon494]

Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.

Come on man, your just making yourself look stupid now.

I'm sorry, I guess this is what passes for an argument with you. I should have considered that before posting:

Your trying to compare Hawk underachieving to Driver overachieving which made no sense of all. There is a reason Hawk only played 9 snaps against the Lions last week, maybe if you took a minute to watch him play instead of wacking off to his golden locks you would understand that dude is average at best.

[Brandon494]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

I don't remember the plethora of injuries at LB. Who was injured and missed significant playing time besides Barnett?

Thats because Bigby would out and Capers didn't trust his replacements to blitz as much. Since Bigby has come back you saw Capers blitz a lot more in the Lions game just as he did against the Bears. Bigby is a bigger part of his defense then some may realize, mainly because the lack of depth we have at safety.

[get louder at lambeau]

Why is it that so many Packer fans are being such negative douchebags lately? "Chew On This Hawk Lovers!"?!? Save the hate for the Bears and Vikes. They need it.

[Noodle]

BTW has AJ Hawk ever made one game changing play in his career as a Packer? I really can't think of one, not trying to flame the guy but if anyone can think of one please post.

The first Chicago game last year, when Hawk made his fiirst start at Mike in place of Barnett, he was a game changer.

But I haven't seen a game like that from him since then.

[rbaloha1]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

B.S. You need to force turnovers. The best NFL defenses force turnovers. In fact there is a direct correlation in turnover margin and winning.