Chew on this Hawk Lovers!

[MJZiggy]

Why is it that so many Packer fans are being such negative douchebags lately? "Chew On This Hawk Lovers!"?!? Save the hate for the Bears and Vikes. They need it.

Good point. Where's Baddestbear?

[rbaloha1]

Why is it that so many Packer fans are being such negative douchebags lately? "Chew On This Hawk Lovers!"?!? Save the hate for the Bears and Vikes. They need it.

Its not about hate -- its pure comedy to read the Hawk Lovers defend him after Coach Moss has publicly challenged him 2 years in a row.

[mission]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

Can you stop posting in absolutes when you have absolutely no clue what the fuck you're talking about? We don't blitz anymore?

At some point you have to decide to slow your posting rate in direct proportion to the % of each Packer game you actually WATCH.

What a joke... dude doesn't even watch the last game and knows exactly what we're doing on defense.

Let me tell you something: You don't.

[falco]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

Can you stop posting in absolutes when you have absolutely no clue what the fuck you're talking about? We don't blitz anymore?

At some point you have to decide to slow your posting rate in direct proportion to the % of each Packer game you actually WATCH.

What a joke... dude doesn't even watch the last game and knows exactly what we're doing on defense.

Let me tell you something: You don't.

[Tony Oday]

In fact, Moss said that if Hawk's low snap totals continue, the Packers will find a way to get Hawk on the field more, because they believe in him.

"That's obviously something we'll have to address," Moss said.



Well it kind of sounds like th coaching staff is behing the Hawk...

[get louder at lambeau]

In fact, Moss said that if Hawk's low snap totals continue, the Packers will find a way to get Hawk on the field more, because they believe in him.

"That's obviously something we'll have to address," Moss said.



Well it kind of sounds like th coaching staff is behing the Hawk...

Is that the part that Hawk lovers are supposed to chew on? The prospect of the coaches figuring out a way to get him on the field more because they believe in him? That's very nice.

[MJZiggy]

Eh, don't give Tony too hard a time. He's not the one who named the thread.

[Tony Oday]

In fact, Moss said that if Hawk's low snap totals continue, the Packers will find a way to get Hawk on the field more, because they believe in him.

"That's obviously something we'll have to address," Moss said.



Well it kind of sounds like th coaching staff is behing the Hawk...

Is that the part that Hawk lovers are supposed to chew on? The prospect of the coaches figuring out a way to get him on the field more because they believe in him? That's very nice.

so I am supposed to disregard the complimentary part of the article but take the criticism at face value?

[pbmax]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

B.S. You need to force turnovers. The best NFL defenses force turnovers. In fact there is a direct correlation in turnover margin and winning.

Yes, but that correlation isn't as seamless as you might believe. Teams can be successful causing more turnovers year after year (or coughing up fewer on offense). But what isn't in your control is recovering loose balls. Once the ball is loose, its a crapshoot who recovers it. The numbers are clear that even the best teams are forcing fumbles do not recover them at the same rates each year. And overall recovery rates for a team bounce around 50%.

So there are some games where you are not going to get a turnover to come your way. If you aren't assignment sure, then you are going to get your ass handed to you. You need both, cause some days are not going to go your way.

[pbmax]

Completely disagree Lurker. They're going to play that much nickel because it puts their best players on the field.

Your point is ludicrous. If the Packers think Chillar is that much better overall than Hawk, then why isn't he in the base Defense?

Because in reality Hawk is SLIGHTLY better than Chillar against the run (or maybe equal) and letting him play those snaps keeps him happy and keeps Chillar fresh to do what he does best?

So Partial believes coordinators call a defense to get the 11 best players out there regardless of position or skill set. You apparently believe coordinators hand out starting positions in base to keep players happy and fresh? I am not buying it.

Nor am I buying Chillar is a slightly worse run defender than Hawk. Chillar gets run over and cannot stop blockers from knocking him off the play and then getting to the next guy. On numerous occasions he gets steamrolled. In the article, the worst play mentioned of Hawk is a failure to get off the block to also make the tackle. Hawk on his worst play plays better run defense than Chillar.

I am not particular fan of Hawk. Other than his rookie year and the first game as MLB after Barnett got hurt, he has not seemed effective in any more than an average sense. Which is fine. But if we are taking out the starter for nickel, I would like that starter to be a demon in run defense. None of them are right now. I suspect that is why Capers has been concentrating his game plan the previous two weeks (Rams and Vikings) on stopping the run, because we aren't doing it well enough in the normal scheme.

Also, ND mentioned the Big Okie as out run defense versus the Rams. But I am pretty sure that took the place of the Packers nickle and was meant to both prepare for the pass and also the possibility of Jackson getting the handoff anyway. Similar to what we used to do with Levens.

[SkinBasket]

Maybe your expectations shouldn't be based on where a guy is drafted. That might help with some of your disappointment. Unless you're also disappointed that Donald Driver hasn't played the way a 7th round pick should play. But I accept your apology regardless.

Come on man, your just making yourself look stupid now.

I'm sorry, I guess this is what passes for an argument with you. I should have considered that before posting:

Your trying to compare Hawk underachieving to Driver overachieving which made no sense of all. There is a reason Hawk only played 9 snaps against the Lions last week, maybe if you took a minute to watch him play instead of wacking off to his golden locks you would understand that dude is average at best.

Excellent use of logic and reasoning. Your numbers are off and your logic is non-existent, but otherwise great effort. Really. Normally you guys bag my cans with my vegetables (and very slowly I might add), so I consider this an improvement.

[rbaloha1]

Backups are suppose to be solid, starters are suppose to make plays and until Hawk starts to do that he needs to stay on the sidelines

If you could get 11 players at all the positions of defense who are as consistently assignment sure as Hawk is, you would have the best defense in the NFL year in and year out.

B.S. You need to force turnovers. The best NFL defenses force turnovers. In fact there is a direct correlation in turnover margin and winning.

Yes, but that correlation isn't as seamless as you might believe. Teams can be successful causing more turnovers year after year (or coughing up fewer on offense). But what isn't in your control is recovering loose balls. Once the ball is loose, its a crapshoot who recovers it. The numbers are clear that even the best teams are forcing fumbles do not recover them at the same rates each year. And overall recovery rates for a team bounce around 50%.

So there are some games where you are not going to get a turnover to come your way. If you aren't assignment sure, then you are going to get your ass handed to you. You need both, cause some days are not going to go your way.

Not talking about potential turnovers but actual turnovers -- change of possessions.

Recall stats from the NFL stating that a +1 turnover margin correlates to at least a 75 per cent winning. +3 is over 90 per cent.

This not a read and react defense -- its an attacking defense designed to force turnovers and sacks -- not just Hawk fill your gap.

[pbmax]

Not talking about potential turnovers but actual turnovers -- change of possessions.

Recall stats from the NFL stating that a +1 turnover margin correlates to at least a 75 per cent winning. +3 is over 90 per cent.

This not a read and react defense -- its an attacking defense designed to force turnovers and sacks -- not just Hawk fill your gap.

I am talking about the same thing. You cannot teach a team, in a repeatable manner, to recover forced fumbles more often. You can teach them to force more fumbles. A team can also be adept at snagging INTs.

But the random chance factor of recovering a forced fumble means you will have games where the bounce doesn't go your way. So if for the season you are +12 or whatever, there will be games where you recover none.

At that point, rather than declare it a lost cause and give in to the probabilities, I would rather be assignment sure. As for read and react versus attack, this defense does both. Its reads the offenses protection and attacks the opposite side.

And I am sure describing a zone pass coverage looks more like read and react than attack.

[SkinBasket]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

I don't remember the plethora of injuries at LB. Who was injured and missed significant playing time besides Barnett?

Thats because Bigby would out and Capers didn't trust his replacements to blitz as much. Since Bigby has come back you saw Capers blitz a lot more in the Lions game just as he did against the Bears. Bigby is a bigger part of his defense then some may realize, mainly because the lack of depth we have at safety.

I laughed. Then I cried. Then I laughed again. Then I puked, giggled, and cried some more. Thanks Branden420, you're a hoot.

Partial, you'll recall that Hawk struggled through two rather significant injuries and still changed positions to cover for Barnett, which in theory should have opened a vault load of opportunity for a player in Bishop's position - young, exciting, healthy, and having made an impression in the preseason - especially when Chillar kind of fucked the pooch and Poppinga struggled to do anything other than run in a straight line until he ran into someone - usually the back of a D lineman. Instead he came in, looked all jumpy and crazy, and seemed to short circuit. Bishop made some big hits two years ago in preseason. This year he looked nice against backups. But the guy obviously doesn't have the mental wiring needed yet. I really hope he figures shit out, because I like a guy who hits people, which is why I hate Barnett. And Chillar. And Poppinga. Until he figures out how to play defense, and not just run into people really hard, it looks like his opportunity will be limited.

[pbmax]

Hawk didn't make any plays last year while Bishop (albeit in limited action) was making plays.

You are remembering Bishop's preseason last year. When he got in the game last season he looked like a retard on cocaine. He made Poppinga look like a smart football player. Which is why his time on the field last season was very limited despite the cornucopia of injuries there last year.

Bishop can't even get on the field as even a pass rusher this year.

That's because we don't blitz anymore. Capers went from one of the Ryan boys in week 1 to Bob Sanders 2.0 since. I've been extremely disappointed. You cannot develop swagger when you play scared.

I don't remember the plethora of injuries at LB. Who was injured and missed significant playing time besides Barnett?

Since you didn't watch the game, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But I would check with your sources before you declare we didn't blitz against the Lions. You are about to get Patlerized.