Packerrats Coaches Assemble: X and O Required

[pbmax]

"The 3-4 is kind of a pure 3-4 reduction at Pittsburgh; this is more of a New England 3-4 than a Pittsburgh 3-4, even though (defensive coordinator Dom Capers) spent time there," Childress said. "You don’t know how much you’re going to get it against what personnels.

Your thoughts, explanations?

[red]

could it have something to do with an attacking vs coverage type of philosophy?

the 3-4 was pretty much created to get a more athletic guy on the field in place of a d-lineman. i would guess that was to help in coverage

a team like the steelers use that more athletic guy to blitz on almost every play while the linemen try and take up blockers so the blitzers are free

whereas other teams might just use that extra athletic guy to cover, and not blitz

going into this season i thought we would be blitzing all the time, but when you look at the first vikings game you'll see that we barely did it at all

and now it seems like we're only getting pressure when we put kampmans hands in the dirt, basically putting us into a 4-3

[Fritz]

I think it's a gap thing, too. The New England 3-4, I think, empahasizes controlling gaps, while the Pittsburgh version emphasizes shooting gaps.

I think.

[pbmax]

New England (Parcells and Belicheck) run a different 3-4 than the old AFC 3-4 that Pittsburgh modified. The only difference I am sure of is the size of one OLB, who is big and really is a DE for most downs in that defense (Willie McGinest, for example). They can drop to coverage, but usually are on the LOS.

A reduction is a slide of the line players either to, or away from strength (the TE usually)> I think Waldo posted that a reduced 3-4 is almost exactly a 4-3 under defense (Fritz Shurmur) which I think means reduction is moving away the TE. The gap opened up near the TE is taken by an OLB (think Wayne Simmons). Not sure, also not sure about gaps.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think it's a gap thing, too. The New England 3-4, I think, empahasizes controlling gaps, while the Pittsburgh version emphasizes shooting gaps.

I think.

This is what I have heard. I have heard a lot though. Basically what I read was that this system is still a one gap control system for the front seven. Asking players to take one gap when the play is called in the huddle.

Whether that is Pitt, or NE I don't really know. NE no longer runs a 3-4, and Pitt runs it to a "T". Even there 2-4-5 nickel package.

Wanting more athletes on the field and more guys that weigh in the 240 to 250 range. In high school we ran a scheme that is called a 5-2 defense in generic terms, what we really ran was a 3-4 defense with a cover 3 scheme. The strong safety was usually in the box, very little cover 2.

It was a flexible defense that could easily become a 4-3, 4-4.

I haven't seen that flexibility yet with the current Packer defense like I thought I would. I guessed that when Capers was hired we see a cross between a 4-3 and a 3-4 defense a little more often. Kampman has put his hand on the ground a dozen times in the past two games so maybe we see this a little more often today.

[sharpe1027]

I haven't seen that flexibility yet with the current Packer defense like I thought I would. I guessed that when Capers was hired we see a cross between a 4-3 and a 3-4 defense a little more often. Kampman has put his hand on the ground a dozen times in the past two games so maybe we see this a little more often today.

That's true so long as you define 4-3 only in terms of whether Kamp has his hand down. Someone correct me here if I'm wrong, but what I've seen is whether or not his hand is down, Kamp usually on the line effectively playing an outside run contain and as a pass rusher. As I understand it, that's also what his role was as a 4-3 DE.

[Partial]

My biggest criticism is we haven't seen all the crazy blitzing since the Bears game. Why isn't Chuck blitzing more? What about Bigby hurdling OL to get the sack (I'll give you he's finally healthy again) - its the strongest element of his game. What about Harris or TWill blitzing?

The key to the D is the confusion that the blitz can come from anywhere. I want to see an all-out assault today.

[red]

My biggest criticism is we haven't seen all the crazy blitzing since the Bears game. Why isn't Chuck blitzing more? What about Bigby hurdling OL to get the sack (I'll give you he's finally healthy again) - its the strongest element of his game. What about Harris or TWill blitzing?

The key to the D is the confusion that the blitz can come from anywhere. I want to see an all-out assault today.

exactly

unleash hell, brinf heat from everywhere, never let the qb get comfortable

thats what the steelers do, and thats what we haven't seen yet

[Fosco33]

My biggest criticism is we haven't seen all the crazy blitzing since the Bears game. Why isn't Chuck blitzing more? What about Bigby hurdling OL to get the sack (I'll give you he's finally healthy again) - its the strongest element of his game. What about Harris or TWill blitzing?

The key to the D is the confusion that the blitz can come from anywhere. I want to see an all-out assault today.

exactly

unleash hell, brinf heat from everywhere, never let the qb get comfortable

thats what the steelers do, and thats what we haven't seen yet

While our corners can handle single coverage, we haven't had anyone they're comfortable with to provide deep coverage.

I still say the safeties are a huge part of great defenses - 2nd only to a star Dlineman that can get to the QB on a regular basis without a blitz scheme.

[Waldo]

Re: Packerrats Coaches Assemble: X and O Required

"The 3-4 is kind of a pure 3-4 reduction at Pittsburgh; this is more of a New England 3-4 than a Pittsburgh 3-4, even though (defensive coordinator Dom Capers) spent time there," Childress said. "You don’t know how much you’re going to get it against what personnels.

Your thoughts, explanations?

The key is the last line of that quote.

Pit's defense is keyed to personnel. They still run a wide array of formations and alignments, but what they are going to run formationally is predictable predicated on offensive formation and personnel group.

Dom attacks more like Bill in NE. He keys his personnel and formations more heavily to situation and not as intently on personnel.

In other words, he tries to stop what you likely want to be doing, whether doing it through trickery or straight up, ignoring what the offense is showing. In Pit, Dick tries to stop that which is most likely to happen with what you are showing him.

The two approaches are a little different, but players like Collins and Chillar allow Dom to call the way he does. And make it harder on OC's to figure out a way to beat it, as they won't be able to predetermine personnel groupings to force and plays to beat them.

Even though Dom does largely use the same set of defensive plays as Pit. Pit does a little more with its ends, but its still early, and our group is better suited to a little different way of playing.

[bobblehead]

My biggest criticism is we haven't seen all the crazy blitzing since the Bears game. Why isn't Chuck blitzing more? What about Bigby hurdling OL to get the sack (I'll give you he's finally healthy again) - its the strongest element of his game. What about Harris or TWill blitzing?

The key to the D is the confusion that the blitz can come from anywhere. I want to see an all-out assault today.

I think we blitz more today, from all angles, confusing shit. BTW, it was chillar who hurdled the dude in the chicago game, Bigby hurdled a guy in preseason against seatle a couple seasons ago.