Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

[Bretsky]

Which free agents are you replacing them with?

Now you are asking me stupid questions. Which are available ?

Are you saying on typical years there are no availalbe Offensive Lineman who would be better than the kids ?

Or are you going to point out we will be unable to recruit them and sign them anyways so it's hopeless to do anything but try to develop the kids

[Partial]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

Always the voice of sanity.

Yeah, it is much worse to have our guys sucking for low dollars than it would be to spend coin on Pace and have him suck.

That my rats is called sarcasm.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Quarterbacks learn nearly all the positions while studying the playbook. And they do not need to be physically manhandled to learn to play the position well. A lineman needs to know how to combat the opposing techniques by experiencing them, not by watching them.

However, more important to both is practice. The NFL-E was very useful for O lineman (Rivera and Andruzzi) in that they got both.

Seven on seven drills work for the passing game, its harder in these days of limited live hitting to do the same for lineman.

[Partial]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

That doesn't make your point because that is not at all what you said, unless you're speaking words and not writing them :P

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

How do you think they are going to learn by sitting? You gotta pay your dues, unless you plan on drafting or acquiring "sure things." Delay the inevitable.

Are there seasoned vets out there that are better that are clamoring to play for the pack.

How is it that quarterbacks learn by sitting? How did Rodgers become a much better player by year 4 than he was in year 1?

Exactly. Thanx for making my point. At some point, arod had to play. Not one of the projected starters for this year was a first year player. They have sat on the bench or behind guys for long enough.

Spitz, College, Barbre, Sitton...all have sat enough. Time to see what they have and let them grow together. You need at least a year together (playing the same positions with each other) to make a determination about the line.

That doesn't make your point because that is not at all what you said, unless you're speaking words and not writing them :P

Dude, the inference is clear. At some point you have to stop sitting and pay your dues. Just like we paid them last year, and to some extent this year from Arod. Just as we paid them for several years under Favre. You of course are too young to remember (or just have forgotten or dismissed it) all the crap Favre pulled.

Just like Arod, these lineman have to be put in the game. Unlike you, i see the exact same pattern as the coaches....arod sat until they thought he was ready..same thing with the lineman..specifically barbre and sitton.

Otherwise, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna determine if they can play and are worth new contracts.

[The Leaper]

RB is a huge concern IMO. If you have to sign Ahman Green to provide pass catching ability at this point, your RB crew is pathetic. Grant is slow and a liability in the passing game. Jackson is a career backup at best. IMO, this team doesn't have a starting caliber RB on the roster.

LB is somewhat of a concern...Matthews looks like a real keeper though.

I'm always a fan of a safety who can make plays on thrown balls...we don't have that IMO.

[Brohm]

Smart football players in general. Those that can block, but not in the back on kick-offs. Those that don't get called for a 15 yard head-butt after stopping them on 3rd and 12. Those that would think, "hey, Jared Allen is going to be free on this play someone should block him." Seen the same down-block error/miscommunication on the rt side, middle as well. A lot of WTF sacks.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

Always the voice of sanity.

Yeah, it is much worse to have our guys sucking for low dollars than it would be to spend coin on Pace and have him suck.

That my rats is called sarcasm.

I will say this. I don't think, in our limited viewing of Lang that he is a Left Tackle of long standing. I think either he or Barbre are the RT of the next seven to ten years. Bretsky, over the long haul will be right about upgrading the position, but it will be a draft pick OR a mistake on a release/FA by another team.

[Bretsky]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

You misunderstood me; I was noting guys like Breno and Smith are around every year after cuts. They have little value on this roster IMO.

Bottom line is the GM needs to get better players on OL if the current guys are not ready to play and be at least average. It's his job.

If we are willing to admit these guys are just kids and not ready to succeed than IMO that is a shortcoming

[Scott Campbell]

Were still not getting a pass rush from the DL. They played very good run D, and goal line D, but Favre got too cozy back there again yesterday. Though not as cozy as the first game.

[Bretsky]

Were still not getting a pass rush from the DL. They played very good run D, and goal line D, but Favre got too cozy back there again yesterday. Though not as cozy as the first game.

It still seemed like a squad that thought if we'd sell out against the run and play pass defense 2nd the opposing QB would either mess up or not make the plays to beat us.

AP was less than dominant but it still didn't work

[Partial]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different.

I was hoping Capers would be more like Rex Ryan and be unafraid to attack the opposition. This guy may run a Blitzburgh scheme, but we certainly don't play D like the Steelers (which may certainly be due to the transition period of acquiring players and talent). They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I think we need quite a few positions upgrade. The problem is a lot of the type of players we need to fill the positions are typically #1 picks.

We definitely need a #1 invested at left tackle. We need an athlete there that also can generate some serious bull dozing on the ground.

We definitely need a versatile athlete to stretch the field and work on returns. A speedster, versatile player like Teddy Ginn, Hester or Harvin. I've been on this bandwagon for awhile and I hope more people join me on it. Blackman is agile and quick but he does not have elite speed.

We definitely need some bigger linebackers who can get pass rush from the inside. It would be really nice to find a pass rushing OLB to compliment Matthews. I think the DL is solid enough at rushing the passer. Does anyone think the problem is here?

Is Jolly an FA after this year? I think he's a good player but the journalists have stated numerous times they don't foresee him being signed by the Pack as they'll have to pay him too much and they think he's got a little CoWill in him (get lazy after signing big deal -- no idea if CoWill did this or Jolly did, but this is what is alluded). Having a two cent head yesterday certainly isn't helping his case.