THE TRENCHES

[Bretsky]

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/68386847.html

I agree with some of this and some of it I disagree with, but a good article for discussion

[mraynrand]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

[pbmax]

Allen was a trade and Favre happens once a generation (like Reggie or Deion). And few teams have two experienced left tackles of any quality. While injuries are no excuse, lose a left tackle and someone young or used up is stepping in no matter where you are. Even the Ravens threw a draft pick out there after injury. Same story as Clifton getting his first starts in 2000.

Youth at this point is an excuse. There is better than average starting experience at most positions. The incumbent O line starters need to step it up. Only the rookie Left Tackle should require and get help.

[Fosco33]

Too many people put this game on a pedestal and talking about revenge... Woodsen said they let a lot of people down.

And while I agree - a few other things happened here.

2 games

0 wins
0 sacks
0 ints

There was not even a hint of 'getting the monkey off your back'. A couple sacks, an int and a W would have done that.

So now what? M3 better be saying - get over it. Division is likely out of the picture. So focus on wins and playing smarter (penalties, avoidable sacks, missed assignments).


At this point, the chances of playing in January are slim.

At least we won't have to play 'him' anymore this year.

[mraynrand]

Allen was a trade and Favre happens once a generation (like Reggie or Deion). And few teams have two experienced left tackles of any quality. While injuries are no excuse, lose a left tackle and someone young or used up is stepping in no matter where you are. Even the Ravens threw a draft pick out there after injury. Same story as Clifton getting his first starts in 2000.

Youth at this point is an excuse. There is better than average starting experience at most positions. The incumbent O line starters need to step it up. Only the rookie Left Tackle should require and get help.

My mistake about Allen. It does fall under pro-player personnel and not the draft however, which is where Thompson struggles.

The general issue is shoring up the trenches. Do you wait 1,2, or more years for draft picks to gel together or do you supplement with free agency/trade? I think you have to do both. Thompson, knowing Tauscher was finished, and knowing Clifton was at the bottom of his tank, could have reasoned he needed to do something to guarantee the O-line. Unless he is playing for next year or the year after, expecting his draft picks to come along by then. (edit: I don't agree that there is enough experience. Sitton and Barbre? Not enough)

[mraynrand]

At least we won't have to play 'him' anymore this year.

I wouldn't count that out. I would say there is a very good chance the Packers will be losing a Divisional playoff game at Minnesota. In fact, my cynical, depressed, post-game persona is predicting it.

[pbmax]

The general issue is shoring up the trenches. Do you wait 1,2, or more years for draft picks to gel together or do you supplement with free agency/trade?

That is the crux of the problem. We have waited three plus years for Colledge, Wells and Spitz and 2 years for Sitton. Barbre is in year 3, and he has had half a season of starts. I understand Lang struggling, but the other breakdowns should have stopped. Either we have misjudged the talent or coaches are not getting the pertinent message across.

[Fosco33]

At least we won't have to play 'him' anymore this year.

I wouldn't count that out. I would say there is a very good chance the Packers will be losing a Divisional playoff game at Minnesota. In fact, my cynical, depressed, post-game persona is predicting it.

Let's hope so. We need at least 6 more wins, some luck. Our schedule is getting tougher, people are dropping like flies and some players need to take their head out of their asses.

If MN keeps playing well, they may lock up a bye anyway...

[mraynrand]

Maybe Ari Fleisher could coach the O-line while Campen flies off to consult with Favre.

[mmmdk]

Re: THE TRENCHES

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/68386847.html

I agree with some of this and some of it I disagree with, but a good article for discussion

Thanx, good article.

Yet I'm baffled; what do you not agree with? The article is spot on. Is it your boy, Jenkins? Jenkins is average at best but I actually take some of my harsh talk on Pickett back. Pickett is crucial to Packers mediocre DL.

Our OL is just terrible, just terrible. Rodgers has some fault but he's special too. I think Favre would've thrown a zillion interceptions had he had an OL like current Packers do. The first 8 weeks of 2009, I only saw Favre play this well during his 3 mvp years. For Favre, this few ints. is unreal for the king of TDs and Ints. Unreal !

[Smidgeon]

Good article, but definitely biased (when you use hyperbolic expressions like the writer did with Barbre, it's a clue that it's a biased--"opinion"--article). I don't agree with the summaries on Josh Sitton (penalty prone? that would be Barbre), the snide comment about Jordy Nelson and Jermichael Finley always being in the training room is also hyperbolic, and "Ted Thompson should be blamed for not going after a defensive end that has enough oomph on pass rush to be able to tie more blockers up and free Jenkins, Kampman or the others from making plays" would be BJ Raji who TT took with the #9 pick in the draft. How is that not "going after a DE that has enough oomph on pass rush"?

The article has points, but it's definitely opinion and therefore shouldn't be taken with a serious grain of salt.

[green_bowl_packer]

Does our line suck because we have a mix of ZBS guys and power guys?

Jagodinski was the only guy who really knew the zbs system as the guru taught it and he was only here a year, and yet we kept it.

These guys have been together too long, to play this badly.

[mmmdk]

Good article, but definitely biased (when you use hyperbolic expressions like the writer did with Barbre, it's a clue that it's a biased--"opinion"--article). I don't agree with the summaries on Josh Sitton (penalty prone? that would be Barbre), the snide comment about Jordy Nelson and Jermichael Finley always being in the training room is also hyperbolic, and "Ted Thompson should be blamed for not going after a defensive end that has enough oomph on pass rush to be able to tie more blockers up and free Jenkins, Kampman or the others from making plays" would be BJ Raji who TT took with the #9 pick in the draft. How is that not "going after a DE that has enough oomph on pass rush"?

The article has points, but it's definitely opinion and therefore shouldn't be taken with a serious grain of salt.

Ok but hear this; Kampy won't be back with Packers next season....unless McCoach and Dom, with his 3-4, are gone. TT won't resign expensive guys that don't fit the system.

I think Sitton is ok too but let's not get carried away with the "talent" on OL. Preseason is over

[retailguy]

Does our line suck because we have a mix of ZBS guys and power guys?

Jagodinski was the only guy who really knew the zbs system as the guru taught it and he was only here a year, and yet we kept it.

These guys have been together too long, to play this badly.

Jags was only exposed to it for two years, then his "year" of teaching in GB. I was never convinced he was an "expert" and still am not. Smoke and Mirrors... thats Jeff Jagodinski.

[Smidgeon]

Good article, but definitely biased (when you use hyperbolic expressions like the writer did with Barbre, it's a clue that it's a biased--"opinion"--article). I don't agree with the summaries on Josh Sitton (penalty prone? that would be Barbre), the snide comment about Jordy Nelson and Jermichael Finley always being in the training room is also hyperbolic, and "Ted Thompson should be blamed for not going after a defensive end that has enough oomph on pass rush to be able to tie more blockers up and free Jenkins, Kampman or the others from making plays" would be BJ Raji who TT took with the #9 pick in the draft. How is that not "going after a DE that has enough oomph on pass rush"?

The article has points, but it's definitely opinion and therefore shouldn't be taken with a serious grain of salt.

Ok but hear this; Kampy won't be back with Packers next season....unless McCoach and Dom, with his 3-4, are gone. TT won't resign expensive guys that don't fit the system.

I think Sitton is ok too but let's not get carried away with the "talent" on OL. Preseason is over

I don't disagree with the lack of talent on OL. I like Lang, Sitton, and Spitz (and not necessarily at their current positions). I think Wells has peaked--he's serviceable, just won't be getting better and better. But I am actually a huge fan of the DL. Huge. Jenkins, Jolly when his head isn't full of sand, Picket, Raji...

I'm also starting to fervently believe that AK is one of the better if not one of the best LOLBs in the league. Have any successful runs gone in that direction? Seems that most of the big runs cut the other way. LOLBs aren't the big sack machines. They're the run support (I think). And to think at 20 lbs lighter (or whatever he is) he can still be successful when he puts his hand down. Now, that sounds like drivel after the Min game, but I maintain that stance based on what he's shown and the progression he seems to be having.